Who Would Watch 'Antz'?

It’s “VS” month, and instead of doing “guy vs. other guy,” we’ve decided to do “movie vs. a kind-of-similar movie” month!

We’re starting with the only two ant-based movies: Antz and A Bug’s Life, kicking things off with Woody Allen’s DreamWorks Antz.

Antz follows Z, basically Woody Allen if he were an ant, as he accidentally sparks a revolution.

Which one is better? It’s probably A Bug’s Life.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

My name is Oscar. My name is Carl. And this is Who Would Watch This? Welcome to Who to Watch This Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

We watch a film, we chat with a film, and we try and figure out who to watch this. Today we are reviewing Ants, which currently has a 6.5 on IMDB, a 2.9 on Letterboxd, and believe it or not, a huge 92% on Rotten Tomatoes from critics.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

The best film we've ever reviewed.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Ever done on the show, which is fucking nuts because it's for ants. Oscar, what's the plot?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

A rather neurotic ant tries to break. Kids love the neurotic ant. We'll get into the what's the bitch. That's the you guys, you ever seen a nervous ants? Kids can connect to it. Tries to break down his totalitarian society while trying to win the affection of the princess he loves. You know, it's those, it's those sleeper hits, you know. You know, people go, it's a really calm chill concept, but it's just done with such empathy that you break through.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

It is a really this is this is how I learned as a children to not bully an ant. Yeah. And I didn't learn that from the ant bully. No. It was this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Which is more uh here's the thing, ant bully is very explicit and a bit one note, whereas this one makes you earn that. Absolutely. I also did break down a society and a government, you know, from within.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Now I think hot off the bat, before we before we rewind, do we think uh this thoughts only just occurred to me, but do we think it was originally just called ants, and then somebody was like, that's not fun enough for kids, and somebody was like on a whiteboard, Z. And they were like, green light.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

A thousand percent. I also don't think Woody Allen's uh ant was called Z at the start, and I think they were like, let's because his name was originally gonna be like Woody or something as well, and they're like Toys already took the wind out at sales.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Probably immediately undercut it. I reckon they wanted Woody Allen for Woody originally. Could you imagine if he was like bullshit? Like you, what are you doing here?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Carl, before we jump into ants, should we go back to last week before we'd uh seen ants?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Oh, when we were trying to predict who we thought we'd watch. That's precisely what I said. That's right. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Carl, it's versus month.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

It's versus month. And we've had a rethink.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

We have had a rethink. We were looking through all the movies that were uh Verse-esque, and there's some fun ones. There's a Superman versus Batman, there's like a Godzilla versus King Kong, but we kind of were like, you know what? That's it's not.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

No, but they're all they're long.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

They're long. It turns out a versus movie is also long. Yeah, because you got two things to do with, you know? And you got two guys, two fellas. Normally most films have one guy, but this one has two. And that just and that doubled every runtime. So we were like, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna do a bit of a switcheroo. We're gonna do the versus month. Two movies that have very similar and then pit them against each other. Even if they're not like technically rotten, we're putting them together. You know, so we're doing ants next week. We're gonna compare it to Bugs Life. Yeah. Because quite frankly, everyone in our friend group has is down split down the middle, and I think that's the whole of society really is.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

We're all on the same political spectrum, which is great, but uh there is a divide between who's a Bugs Life fan and who's an ant.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

It's fascist, but my god, when it comes to ants, you just don't know where you're sitting. You just don't know where you're sitting. It's just crazy. Yeah, it's but like thank god we're all fascists. It really, it's nice, you know, to find your your clan. But no, so we're gonna do that. I think we've got uh what's the derivation?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

So our pitches were and if anybody has any ideas, please by all means you can write in. Email us at uh wwwt podcast at gmail.com. But if you've got any ideas, the other ones we've got is we're gonna do Friends with Benefits and No Strings Attached, uh White House Down and Olympus's Fallen. Yes. And then I think there was it was Volcano and Deep Impact. Yeah. Or it was two comp maybe it's maybe it's Armageddon in Deep Impact. Yeah, to uh or the core because of the yeah. Yeah, the core. There's there's there's definitely some ones there. So I'm I'm keen to do them, but I know there's a bunch. So if anyone's got more oddball ones, the other one we're looking at is doing the the two animal farms.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yes. Which I which I'm thinking because one's Kelsey Grammar as a pig. Yeah. Great stuff. And the other's Seth Rogan as a pig. So it's just all the Kelsey Grammar of our generation. People have been saying that. People have been saying that. Uh but Carl, we're doing ants, and we're gonna compare it to Bugs Life. Um, have you seen ants? And are you an ant head or you're a Bugs Life fella? So I'm pro-ants.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

That's my hated Bugs Life. No, I didn't hate Bugs Life. But Bugs Life never caught on for me. So I was a big ants person. Ants was on DVD in my household. I I liked that Ants was Ants was a very violent movie from memory. I have not seen it in conservatively 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Uh the beheading scene has stuck with me.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

The beheading scene has stuck with me. Um, and the uh torch scene of them all being blown up by the by the uh magnifying. Yeah, the magnifying glass. Uh that's all definitely there. Yeah. And then I'll I'll uh just as a kid, it it always really rocked me that Sylvester Stallone was the voice of an aunt.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

What have you told what have you seen him in before that?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

It's crazy for a kid, because as a child, I was like, these are just peep these.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Well, because I think that's flick.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

I kept watching this film past when I should have stopped. Yeah. So I'd seen Rocky by the time I was still watching Ants.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

15 years ago, I'm like, that's pretty actually like you're like you're 14. So yeah, I was I was near 18, poster up on the wall. Big beer. Ants. You went to go vote, you had a big sip of beer, and you went, let me put on ants.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

26 at my wedding. Ants. Everybody had to watch it. You know when everybody rocks up to the wedding and it's a you're like, hey guys, whoever wants to join the night before, we're all we're all cozying up and we're watching the ants.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

It's not crazy, it's not crazy. Uh but you're a big ant head then.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

I'm a big ant head. And so this is my favorite of the two. I remember Bug's Life being dull. And I think I think with a Bug's Life I don't know if I re I don't even know if I fully remember Bug's Life well, but I think the reason I didn't particularly like it is probably because other Pixar movies I just thought were better. So I just rather watch them. That's crazy. So I don't know if it was just bad by default in terms of I just didn't get into the cycle of watching them the way that I was watching the Incredibles and Ratatouille and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

That's nutty. Because for a long time I was like, look, because I love Bug's Life as a child. Really? I'll put that above up, I'll put that up over the Incredibles. And maybe I've seen the error of my ways, and that's fine. But as a staunch ten-year-old, I was like, guys, this this bug stuff happens. Great. He runs away to the circus, and then the circus beats another, you know, fascist group. It's very good for them.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

I can't name you a character from a bug's life. Flick. So the flicks the lead. Flicks the lead. I remember the fat slug caterpillar. Is that him? That's like it's me. I am a fat slug.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

And then you got, I guess, like the the Brooklyn-esque ladybug, which is pretty fun.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Um Do you want to know my my full understanding of a Bug's Life is mainly from Toy Story 2 when they're at the end of that. Which is a great bit. But but that is like a I remember as a kid, I don't think I'd seen Bugs Life. Yeah. But I knew them from that.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

And then when I finally watched Bugs Life as a kid, I was like, ah.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

I mean, look, in fairness, starting with Two Story 2 and then going to that, that hurts. As a toughie. It's a real toughie.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

I was like, where's the heart? I think Bugs Life doesn't have heart. I'm gonna say it now.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

No, but they take down Kevin Spacey as a grasshopper. Isn't that good? This one, I I Ants is definitely um I feel like I know Bugs Life pretty much back to back. Yeah. Whereas this is a vague uh horrible war scene with ants and then Woody Allen doing Woody Allen before I even know who Woody Allen was.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yeah, I can't really remember. I think that all I know is the ant like two ants have to go on a journey, is my main thing. Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of threat. Yeah. And I think I like like I like that you like the thrill, you know. It's essentially my hobbit. Yeah. It's just like, look at this guy, he's getting out of the shire, getting out of the ants. He's going to find the pastures. He's going a little stretch, you know?

SPEAKER_01 7:58

He's discovering himself. Whereas I I feel like Bugs Life also does that, but it's just him. But he runs away to the circus. I'm gonna take down the dirty grass. I think the yeah, look, the circus poor aspect. You get your you get your colourful freaks.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

The stick man, he's fun. It's weird. Was the circus big when uh Bugs Life came out?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Because surely the circus was in its 1998 was the year of Circus. I can't stress to you. There was like the 1920s, sort of water for elephants out of that. Yeah. And then 1998 hit the scene. Wow, circus.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Where do you think Juggalos came from?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

It's the circus craze of 1998.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

We should do um Water for Elephants and the Greatest Showman. That's awesome. Two movies that went head to head a decade apart.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Both came out on top, surprisingly. Yeah. Both winners. Both big winners. Both got Broadway shows. Yeah, damn. Good for them. Uh Carl, who do you think is gonna watch ants?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Or it's for the it is for the it's it's the it's the more hardcore kids. Whoa. Because I remember I remember my pussy friends being like, I love Bugs Life. And I'm like, oh, love's not gonna save the world, you freak.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Woody Allen depicting I guess a Hobbit-esque scenario is really man, Woody Allen on the on the Lord of the Rings would have been a would have been a bit of a him as Gandalf.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

No, no, you shouldn't pass.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Daddy Go, Danny Go, no, not for this. Come on, come on, be crazy.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Just so people know, we're not pro Woody Allen, but I love doing his voice.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

It's really unfortunate because he's got such a distinct voice, and quite frankly, him like, oh shucks, is really good.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

He is a monster. Let's just look at it. Absolutely horrible if you look up anything about him. It's one of those things. I think people I remember my parents being like, you know, I don't know. Like my parents were like, we're not really like across it. And I was like, man, if you watch like a doco about it, it's so horrible. Like it's way more horrible than I think what the media got onto about Woody Allen. There's a bunch of other people. I think everyone's just like disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Have you seen Manhattan though? You're just like, Hannah and her sisters, you know? He was an indie darling, you can't touch him.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Everybody's always like, but he made the city a character.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

New York wasn't on the map before, Woody. That guy wouldn't make a city a character. And then Manhattan starts with like, I'm so I'm fucking this 15-year-old. What do you think? What do you think about that? And his his his arc is maybe I'll find someone my own age, and then push this chart aside. It's good stuff though. I gave it four stars.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Uh who did you say? So cool kids? It's gonna it's for the cooler kids. I reckon weaklings like you, like you, would have bullied the shit out of you in high school. I would have been like, look at that bug's life freak over there. Get on my ants trained.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Who I think would watch this, I think it's for the dirty smelly kids because quite frankly, this You're right, I wasn't clean. Yeah, this gives off. I can't this gives off bargain bin. Like, if you're looking at the two products, you know that the pick the pics are gleam, and this is a a cheap knockoff, a whore attempt to attend child.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

There is a glossiness to a Bug's Life for sure in memory that ants definitely don't have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

I can see about the character of the Bugs Life because I feel like that, like, um Maybe the ones in the Bugs Life are defined.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Sure. But mine, yeah, they all look like ants. Yeah, they all look similar. Same sort of weird triangular jaw, all very all the very same colour palette. Yeah, but there's not the same shine, not the same shimmy, too not the same color.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

We're pretty, we're pretty, we're pretty similar, you know. Is that a theme? Yeah, it's a theme is they also are just ants. So we couldn't really do two great things.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

What are they meant to do? They're like, it just makes sense that other different looking ants are a part of the same colony, you know? That's not a thing. So what are they meant to do? They can't be like, there's red ants and blue ants and all of these other ants. What nonsense, you know? They're like, as a kid, I would have called them out. It would have been like, I haven't seen these guys hang out.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

I know my ants, and they are very rarely hanging out.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

I have constantly seen a ladybug and a caterpillar on a leaf, though. So that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

But that checks out. I know my stuff, okay? I know my stuff, and that's fun. But but a bunch of mixed ants, nuh-uh.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Never seen a sugar ant and a black ant chat. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Never seen it happen. Could you imagine a bull ant and a sugar ant hanging out? No, no, no. Politically, that just wouldn't fly. I'm sorry. No. Carl, it's Woody Allen's ants.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

It's Woody Allen's ants. It's Dream Dreamworks, Woody Allen's ants. As the film was unfolding, it was really hard to understand how this was ever pitched for children.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

No, I think there is a lot of behind the scenes uh spitefulness of pretty much, I think it's whoever's the leader of um leader. John Lassander. He like jumps ship from uh DreamWorks to Pixar. And I think technically the idea was floating around. Yeah. I feel like actually Pixar might be semi-in the wrong, but then Dreamworks goes, you know what, that whole ant thing we had, bring it into So they squeeze, they smash it out, and they're racing to get something out. Both of them release ants in the same year.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

There's a lot of great YouTube videos that can articulate it way better than us with a lot of racing. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 13:12

I feel I nailed it. I feel I nailed it.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

They listen to Two nameless men went head to head with the same idea.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

I can't remember who was in the wrong or who was in the right. I feel like I remember it being because I'm like, but Pixar's the right one.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

I think um, I think yeah, and I mean they were definitely Pixar was also doing its thing of like every it was like there's a world of cars, there's a world of bugs, there's a world there was a world of toys. They were just sort of going, what's what's the world of A, B, C, D, E, F, G?

SPEAKER_01 13:44

And then Wally was like, what if humans destroyed it for their dirty dirty environmentalism? You're like, yeah, that's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

They were like, what a Fred Willard we got on screen as a human in Wally, and that really blew the minds of children everywhere. It did blow my mind.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

I couldn't believe. I'm like, that's a human. Have they made that? No, but it's just Mr. Fred.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

I think I I think once they get out of sort of doing those conceits is why I like a ratatouille.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

It's because I think Ratatouille's like a Remember the time they were like, a rat that cooks, that's not a thing and a thing. Get out of here, Pixar.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Well, I just I always really like Ratatouille because Ratatouille's not saying there's a world of rats and this is this is how they operate and this is how they do everything. I think I think But it's it's set within the real world. And so it's like he's mostly interacting with like what we already have in the kitchen. Like pans. Pans, you know, it's pans. Yeah. I like that film Pan's Labyrinth. Not Pan inside.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

And that was my issue with the whole film, you know. And that bisexual rock star as well. He really did not renale it. Um prejudiced. You're doing labyrinths. No, I'm not. You're doing labyrinths. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

You're so clearly doing labyrinths. He's in Del Toro's Pan Labs. Bowie's the girl.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Um, but yes, ants, ants, Woody Allen. Yeah, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Opens with a big cracking uh therapist scene. Yeah. The big opener to our children's movie. We've spent a hundred million dollars. Kids are going to get into Woody Allen's mindset via therapy. It's good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

It's a funny uh, I guess, cliche that he had around his career. Just like he's always there isn't therapy.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

He's not well. He's not well. But also, turned out he wasn't. No, he's neurotic. He was a bad guy. I wanna fuck my daughter. Now we we don't usually watch the movies together. No, it's blessed. Um, but we did end up watching Ants together with some people. And one of the things I was talking about was I think that there is an adult edge to the movie. Yes. That some of it's working and some of it's not.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

It's pretty Shrek. And Shrek, you know, like I feel it's overhyped, but that is a perfect blend of it's a kid's film. But the parents are having fun too. It is.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

I think it's really fun. I think you can feel the I think a Simpsons-esque quality that's also taking over Hollywood of saying a cartoon can have an adult edge to it, yeah, and you can handle adult themes and humor without children realizing. Yeah. And ants is teetering on starting to work out how best to give that to children.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

They have gone, we don't give a fuck about the kids. The kids will just the kids will line up and watch the animated ants do their thing. Yeah. But then they're also dragging, like, what if what of war? What do we do we have?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Well though, I could believe it was about like, you know, a regime coming in, and they were also really accurate to like how a hive works, and there is just a long scene with a queen squirting out kids for like 30 years. Like, and you go, and there are worker ones and fighter ones. And you go, okay, you've actually sort of thought about a real life colony of ants when I'm not here for the accuracy of the ants. No. And it's also crazy too to say we're gonna do a a bug movie, and their idea is bugs die all the fucking time. Yeah. So this a lot of the bugs you see in this film are gonna get killed. Yeah. And that's fine. You know, we're gonna be a big thing. And that's a great edge wild for a child. And that's probably why I did like it.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

But watching it as an adult, look, watching it as an adult, I felt pretty validated pretty quickly. Because a lot of people argue bugs, life, and ants, and don't really have not watched either of them for a very long time. So I was a bit like, am I in the wrong here? No, no, it's an odd, it's a gross looking flick.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

It like, yeah, so this is the other thing. This is an ugly looking movie. Yeah, it is a lot of uh just a brown colour palette. Yeah. Because they the the characters are just shades of brown, and then they're all in a clay underground setting.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

And so it's just that.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Then when they start getting flooded, I was like, oh, finally, some fucking Sylvester Stallone's character, they've gone, okay, we need some bigger ants to sort of show the difference. And that's all they really have, really, to differentiate them. Kind of like various reds and browns, you know? It's pretty aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

All the designs look the same. It's hard to tell them about I I guess their whole thing is that there's not individualism in the world. No, I'm not sure. But just in terms of a visual entertaining standpoint as a film, you've got to give more.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Sylvester Salone's like uh girlfriend uh and the princess look exactly the same. Yeah. You know? And that's not me being ant racist, okay? That's just That's just what it is. I'm just saying it how it is.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

One of them has more fancy antennas because there's a princess quality to them, sure. The other one's got better legs because it's Jennifer Lopez. Jennifer Lopez. The movie makes that joke.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Jennifer Lopez, they go imagine Jennifer Lopez with four legs and the camera look up.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

The camera pans down as a POV of like a horny man, and she puts her hand down and it's like, eyes up here, buddy. It's like whoop.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

As a 10-year-old, I really got a lot out of that. You know, that was for me.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah, I remember at that moment I went, Am I attracted to eggs? Many people were. Mom! This movie's making me feel things.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

You're gonna be marrying a ladybug.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Mom, I think I'm interested in a pseudo-German fat slug. He's really charming.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

He's got character. Um, but yeah, we are introduced to Woody Allen. He's having a bit of a uh a crisis of faith. Yeah. I think just where he is in the colony, what's his purpose, you know. Is this really the system for him? Yeah. Or is it really to oppress him?

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Does he need to get out and about? Now, immediately what's sticking out to me is Woody Harrow, uh, Woody Allen's voice does not suit the character that they've written. No. Not in the slightest. No. So this is not, he doesn't come across as game for adventure. He doesn't come across as brave. He doesn't come and like these aren't things he learns on the way.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

No, no, no. I feel like maybe he was thrusted into the the hero's journey, but he's not. He's like, you know what, I'll I'll go outside. Yeah. I'll I'll do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

It's just tough to spend a lot of time with such a loser, such a, such an erotic, scared loser who just through sheer coincidence and dumb luck is able to save the day.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

But it's not even like he's like trying to force it away. Like, he's like, no, I'll I'll take it, I'll go with the punches. Going into it. Yeah, which is. You should learn to change. Now, what we also noticed was because it's sort of set up that there's workers and there's fighters, but there's also very some small specialty skills that you can be a therapist in this ant world.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yeah, how do you break out of that? I don't know. How do you learn your good? Because I think that's the like, you know, he needs to find what he would be good in the world of ants now. And I think, you know, he would be good. Maybe he's a chef. Maybe he's a gardener.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Now, now question.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

What about an architect who's doing all the architecture?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Well, it's just a big mound, isn't it? I know, but there's holes and rooms and there's cabins. It looks a lot like New York in the background.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

It's got like a New York sort of An animated movie whose city is referenced as New York? Groundbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Get Woody Allen. Get Woody Allen bolt. He can make this pop. Yeah. Um, but I have two questions. One, uh, is it odd that every bug movie, because B Movie does a similar thing of just like Eurodrone and Office Drone? It's odd they all go for that sort of let's use the bugs the metaphor for this and only this, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

It's odd for a kid because at that time a kid's not a drone yet. They're not a then like now I'm like 29, I feel like I'm a worker bee. Yes. But when I was a kid, I was Barry B. Benson up to here.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

You know, I don't notice. Isn't it odd that B movie goes, what if we did that? And they go, fuck, we don't want to do that for the last third. Let's just jump, let's do a whole hunting. Let's do a court case. God is good. God is funny.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

It's but yeah, I think it is odd that the I think the only the Pixar's the only one that says we're not gonna do accurate bug life. Where Which is ironic, which is ironic because it's cool, bugs. He's gonna run off and go to the circus and just do his own thing, like the bugs have circuses.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Because if there were Well, the bugs didn't have circuses, other bugs had circuses, you know. The ants did not have a circus.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

But who who went and paid money for the circus in a bug's life?

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Well, that's the problem. The circus is not doing very well. Now you're seeing the dilemma to the first.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

But now it's accurate, okay. Well, I can't remember the film. We should stop talking about a bug's life because I don't remember it and we haven't watched it yet. But it's It is odd that B movie and ants both were like, there's worker bees and there's worker ants. And so we have to make that accurate to how it is out in the bug world. And a kid needs to know that. Otherwise, if they find out, they'll know that they've lied. We've lied to them. We've lied to them about this adventure tale.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Which would be horrible. Imagine a kid being lied to. It's just on. Now we do get our first pretty big packed action scene. Sorry, my other question was, and I will get into it later, but we got a big action scene. They're doing a wrecking ball, but they don't have equipment, so they've got to make a big wrecking ball with themselves and ants. I mean, Woody Allen is the is literally a link in the chain. Yeah. But he has to sneeze because he's so afraid. He's so afraid.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

And as a as if I was, say, the supervisor of the wrecking ball, I'm putting Woody in the ball. Woody. He's not in the chain.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Crazy for them to have just one ant be a chain.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Yeah. Be a two. That's a backup. I just think as well, when it comes to a chain, you use your strongest ants. I don't know why they're not using the Sylvester Stallone ants as the chain and the weaker ants as the channel.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

We have an idiom for it. Don't do a weak chain. Don't be a weak link in the chain.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah, a hundred. So it's crazy. Yeah. So I already don't think the society's well built, and maybe they deserve to be drowned.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Totally, totally.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Totally. It's time to start afresh.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

I think, look, I'm siding with the fascist ant at the moment because he's like, you know what? I'm gonna send a lot of the weaklings to their death. Yeah. And when you're looking, and I'd be like, how dare you? But when you have our POV as Woody Allen, I go, ooh, maybe it's worth killing this whole society.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

But also, I mean, it's so Gene Hackman is our villain. Yes. Very charismatic. I'm on his side immediately. I think maybe we'll be able to.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

You see why he rose up the ranks. And I assume there's only one rank, it's either worker, fighter, or I guess general.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Yeah. So it was three ranks. Yeah, you're absolutely. And look, the thing is as well, is our our only understanding as to what a worker ant is like is through Woody Allen, and I'm hating this character. Yeah. So of course I'm like, they are weak. Yeah. If this guy's interacted with Woody Allen, no wonder he's like, oh, just drown him. We've got to kill them all. We've got to kill them all. We can breed them better than this. Yes. That's not tough.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Then being the fact that ants have got me on side eugenics already is a bad sign for this ants. Absolutely. Not good. Not good.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Now, when ants are creating a colony, do they wrecking ball?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Well, I guess in my mind, well, they're mining. Yeah. So that's how you make the tunnels. Yeah. And I guess the wrecking ball would be more of a renovation.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Weird they did give them actual tools. Like, weird though we're like, we're gonna be accurate about like how worker ants are and how the society, but they'll use little pickaxes and the bad ones will have spher and spears.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

I guess because it's a a pretty bad metaphor. Like, I'm like, oh man, they're working class. Whereas if they're eat using their mouths and they're liking it, they're like, maybe maybe they do like it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yeah, is that what they do? They eat their way? I assume they would like claw it with their mantle. I feel like they go, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then other people are carrying the little rocks or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Precisely, yeah, exactly. It's uh why have they got a pickaxe? Well, it's just ridiculous. Now, my other question is, I don't know how ants I guess the queens squirt now babies. Yeah. And that's not us being crass. It's just very casual, just her squirting out babies.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

They're coming out from behind, she gets to touch them for a hot second, and away they go.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

What how how do the ants so do other ants uh fuck? Or is there like uh is it just the queen that gets the sort of dealing?

SPEAKER_00 25:13

I think it's only the queen. I think when we we looked it up last night, didn't we? Because the queen can be alive for anywhere from 20 to 30 years, pumping out children. Yeah. So there's not, I guess, any any reason for there to be any other sexual I don't know where I'm going with this. No, no, no. There's no reason for any of the other ants to be having sex. That's why I'm wondering.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Because I guess do you do ants get inspired to start a different colony? Well, that's what I'm wondering. Because I'm wondering whether so like let's say because the princess and Woody are gonna get together. Well, does that mean that Woody's babies will be the new colony and then they'll be all neurotic? And then also, is is it also like is there a reason why we've got uh ants like sort of hooking up and being like, is there romantic reasons for ants, you know, to be together? I'm just confused with how the ants work, uh, and I'm very scared of a colony of Woody Allen's.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Yeah. So only only a queen ant and a winged male ant will have sex. Nice. The vast majority of the colony, the wingless uh worker ants, are female but sterile, meaning they do not mate all lay eggs, focusing instead on foraging, defense, and caring for the queen's brood.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

They did have a vague vibe that all the worker ants in the mines were women, and it seems like Woody Allen was a pussy and had to be that. Uh that was sort of a weird uh Well not a weird.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

It was odd that they had to break their break their thing and be like, and be like, look, accurately, all of the miners are women. Uh but we can't have a female lead, it seems. So Woody Allen has to be the lead.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Do you think kids are gonna gravitate to a woman ant? No, no, no. We need some we need a New York Jew who's 70, and now we're gonna get the kids involved.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

It's 1998, and kids aren't ready for a female lead ant movie. It has to be Woody Allen.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Both uh it's funny, both films have like a queen ant, and both of them are like, but what if there's a male? And what's what's his vibe?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

What's his POV? His would be more interesting than I guess the actual life they're living, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Um, but yeah, no, so they get the wrecking ball, and then Woody Allen and uh what's Sylvester Sallone's character? It's called like Woven or Weaven. I don't care. Weaver. Weaver. They go to the bar, which I think is really funny. I love when a bars and her bugs.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah, I know. And so we know he's different, and suddenly a princess is out and about. Yeah, and is that because she'll be becoming the queen soon? Is the queen coming to the end of her tenure?

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Um, so she goes and has a dance with Woody Allen. Woody Allen's like, I don't like dancing and like line dancing. And I I'll just boogie like this. And she's like, You've got some rears on you, King. Yeah. Um I definitely don't feel like they've got a chemistry or a spark. Nope. And once we're the way she is here in this scene versus how she is when she's reintroduced again, super different characters, super different characters, super more unlikable when she comes back.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Yeah, like I don't like she's kind of like a spoilt bitch, like at the end. Yeah, which is odd because at this point she's like kind of sneaking off, a bit adventurous, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

I'm like, I'm like You feel like there's a fun spark to her here. And then once we're once we spend more time with her, there's not. She's like somebody that's like, Z, don't leave me.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

You're a just like you're a weak enough and you'll always be a worker bee.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yeah, and he's like, Okay, well, I'm gonna go off and maybe die, but I don't care if I get to the destination I want to be in, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

So what's now what do we think of these goo triangles? I like them. I would love to have a sip.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

I would have absolutely loved to have a sip. It'd be one of those things where when Dreamworks opens their own Disneyland, I'll be going to the ants colony and I'll be getting some of the purple, the purple drizzle. Oh my mommy it's ants world. It's ants world. I can meet Weaver and Z. The parent with their children being like, don't talk to any of the ants. Just take the take the drink and leave. Oh, you don't dream? Oh, you shouldn't take a drink. You should not take a drink. Don't take the drink. It's a triangle green. I want the triangle green. Um Z then comes up with a great idea, which is to swap life for a day with Sylvester Stalin. Drop swap. Drop swap. Um, which is that a reality show? Because that would go really well. Well, there's um so you think you can be a boss or whatever it's called. No, no, no, there's undercover boss. Undercover boss, that's it. I got it confused with Sue thinking you can dance. So you think you can boss? So you think you can be a boss? Uh that's where they uh take the most underpaid possible person, and he proves, yeah, he can probably be the boss of the company. It's not that hard. It's not that hard to make the decision.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

The business kind of set up already. You know, it's it's KFC.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

It will work. Goes, well, I don't have to do I don't have to do anywhere near as much work as I was doing, and I'm getting paid nearly a million times the salary I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

And I'm friends with the colonel. That's right, he's real. We made him in a lab, like all the chicken.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Um they do a job swap, but the he doesn't realize that all of the fighter ants are going out to on a battlefield ant war to ant war. They're going to ant war with uh lights. Termites termites, yeah. Yeah. And it is horrific. It is pretty big bloodbath. And I think everybody dies but one.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, it's it's it's the worst war, it's the is the weirdest war of just like there's one survivor on one side. In which case, like if he died, then it's a tie. Isn't that crazy? You know, um, and this is true.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Yeah, this is what happens. Ants will go to war with termites, and usually it's a bit of a stalemate because the ants have the numbers to kill all the termites, but a lot of the ants will die anyway.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yeah. So it's just it's just it's just kind of you know, uh just population kind of that's it.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Um but you sort of feel that they were like, we need to we need to depict this because kids will know if we if this is inaccurate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Kids have a sense for this sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Kids constantly come up onto the battlefield on the you know, a little bit harder gravel and see dead termites and dead ants, and they go, I know what's happened here.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

I know what's happened here, I know what war plans were effective, and I know which ones were not, and I know how I, as a general, would enact a better change to get the win for the termites or the ants, depending on where you stand politically. Yeah. Um, now, now this scene's gruesome, and I think it's fun, but it is crazy that this isn't a film.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Weird they don't like do the termites chat? Have they got free will?

SPEAKER_01 31:21

I assume they have the exact same thing, but just a different language. The language barrier, yeah. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah. So there is a there is a world where Z goes and befriends a termite and joins the two worlds together.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Unfortunately, there was a language barrier, there's no Rosetta Stone to combine them. Yeah. And here we are, at war. And that's what we want to get out of this podcast, guys. You know, meet your neighbor, meet your enemies, you know. You gotta be friends.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

There's we get a pretty famous scene from Ants, which is we have the head scene. Yeah. So somebody's decapitated head is there, Z goes up and has a chat with his friend that's just a head. Um, what is the purpose of this scene? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

I don't know. It's sort of it feels really underbaked, this film. Yeah, in terms of I think they may have had longer stuff. They wanted to sort of go, he's starting revolution, and this is almost how uh Woody Allen's crazy for a kids movie.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

He's gonna go to war, and that's gonna radicalize him and be like, we shouldn't be doing this thing. Yeah, good people died out there for no reason.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

That's exactly what the scene feels like, but it feels like he sort of drops the head, goes, right, I'm off to the bin. Yeah, the big bin for fine food. Um, it that's I all I can think. That would be sort of, yeah, and they just cut a lot of stuff because it feels quick. This feels a quick move. It's an 80-minute film.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Yeah, it's it moves at a lightning pace. Uh, in terms of the plot moving forward, it doesn't feel quick. It feels slow. In fact, it feels quite slow, uh, but it is only 80 minutes, which is it was nice to click and be like, oh god, that felt like half an hour, and you're like, ah, 15 minutes passed, that's okay. Because you know there's only like 20 minutes left after that.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

And the credits come fast and yeah, pretty aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

They're loose and quick. They're loose and quick. Um, he goes back and he's awarded the Medal of Honor, and due to circumstances, he accidentally ends up kidnapping the princess. Yes. Um, we get the other big scene from the movie, in my opinion. There's the movie's broken up into set pieces, and that's how, as it was unfolding, I was like, oh, now I remember the set piece.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

And now I'm like, I remember we were watching with our friends. We were kind of going, I remember this start, and I remember the war, and then we're kind of like, what is the rest of the film?

SPEAKER_00 33:25

I'd forgotten all about the flooding and the climbing. Yes. Um, which is actually exhilarating, but we'll get there. Um the the the first this scene with the magnifying glass. Yes. Now, quick question for you Did you ever do this?

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Did you ever try to do it? I was enamored that a magnifying glass could start a fire. However, morally as a chart, I went, that is so cruel to those ants. I think because of Ant Bully, I think Arpha and the Invisibles, I think just various kids' media was like, hey, burning ants is a dick move. Yeah. You know? Toy story. There's just a lot of scenes where the evil person burns ants. I was a pretty staunch uh vegan when it came to burning ants. I would eat meat, of course, but I would never burn an ant. Did you burn ants?

SPEAKER_00 34:09

No, I never even attempted to do it. And a part of me thinks it can't be done.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Oh, you can but you can burn. I couldn't believe how easy a magnifying is. Oh, really? Super easy. Super easy.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

And I mean, look, it is science. Yeah. It's just good stuff. The yeah, I mean, I never attempted to do it. I think I was one of those kids that much more pretended to be like a sleuth. I was like, I was like, why would I burn ants when I could solve the case?

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Here's the thing, and that's the great thing about magnifying glass. It can really be a weapon or a tool. It's great that it's both. It's great, it's great that it's both. Same with a gun.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Yeah, you don't be great as it knives out. You've just got um Memoir Blanc just burning ants. It's like, look, I can do multiple things with this tool. Uh yeah, and so I I do appreciate that a lot of kids' movies basically were like the loser kid does this.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah, it's not on. It must have been a big thing in like the 50s and 60s. Yeah, it was such a I guess there's a lot of psychopaths then. I guess they didn't have the internet. Yeah, that that that was the issue, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Now they put all of their hatred online. Now you just comment like kids. All their vitriols towards us, which is much healthier. Much healthier. It's great because you know, we ignore it, but they're getting it out of their system. Totally. I mean, if you guys comment, we will kill ourselves with magnetics. I'm so fragile, you have no idea. You wouldn't believe.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

You wouldn't believe.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

But yeah, comment and I'm gonna go burn some ants. That's a th that's a threat. Fucking store man 47, I'll burn you. I need to feel big.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Um, but yeah, no, the princess is like, you who boys, come help me. This bitch Z just stole me. And then a mag do we ever find out who is the owner of this magnifying bar?

SPEAKER_00 35:42

We never, I like it that you do never, you never see these higher beings.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

This is just a horrible world. Almost gods to them, essentially, really.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Yeah, they are the great, they would be gods. You'd be like, don't go out there, titans will come for you. Yeah, but if you can beat them, you're rewarded with trash. Exactly. And it's gorgeous. Oh my god, it's gorgeous. Um, but yeah, so we've got this big scene with the answer not only being fried, but blowing up like War of the Worlds. Yeah. Pretty gruesome, you know?

SPEAKER_01 36:08

We're up to, I'd say we've seen about probably close up a hundred deaths, you know, at this point.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Yeah, so far, yeah, we've seen people get mauled to death, these people are being exploded. Once they survive this, they just continue their journey. Yeah. Um, and it is again a series of just sort of set pieces. The next set piece is going to be at a picnic. Yeah. So they, I think they think this is the utopia, right? Yes. And they're like, this must be the utopia.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Oh, yeah, we didn't talk about it. At one point in the bar, a crazed old man is like, hey, you guys go to Utopial Land, it's where the ants are all free. And he's skirted off like sort of a CIA. He's sort of like muffled and taken away. Struggled in the back, thrown in an ant van. We never see him, but we never really got that story. But anyway, yes, they're in the ant utopia. Yeah, they try to get a sandwich. Uh-oh, Kling film, you know, can't get through that. I have no idea what the point of all this is.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

No, I couldn't tell you either. I think I I also find it odd too because I think the the movie has bad world building. And I think you would have a better time if they were saying like hundreds of years ago, you know, somebody else went and did something like this. Wow. I think there needs to be more inspiration as to him doing what he's doing. I think it's odd that he is like the messiah to them. Yeah. And not somebody inspired by because if their whole thing is like doing something inspires more, the fact he just does it and it inspires everyone within an instant doesn't it feels very quick. It does feel like it doesn't feel like there is a speed running messiah.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

It seems like the society was on the brink and no one thought to do anything.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Nobody thought to do anything. And I'm like, surely somebody there's got Z can't be the first of the colony. Because everyone's bitching and moaning. That's the thing. Nobody's happy here. He can't be the first to have decided this. No. If we've gotten to the point that therapists exist, this has got to be happening.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah, exactly. Someone's like, do we need to go to work? But here's the problem, though. If these ants stop working, what are they gonna be doing? They'll be drowned.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Yeah. It seems like they would like to just go and and and have a fun life out in the grass and eat trash. Yeah. But is it not within ants' DNA to make ants love hanging out.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Ants that's in their DNA, you know? It's like us. Two million ants? Yeah, I've heard of it. Two ants? No. No. That's weird. I think their power is in strength. Have you ever seen the single ant hanging around? No. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

So, what is the rule of an ant? They're how much times their strength? Like it's a hundred times. Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

They can lift a leaf. Wow, god, they're inspiring. You've seen those two ants pull that cockroach? Just inspiring stuff. You know? Never give up, guys.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

The superheroes of the insect world. Precisely. Like I think if Marvel was bugs, there'd be a lot of them would be ants.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah. I don't think Ant Man would be an ant, ironically. I think you'd be more.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

He'd be something even weaker because he's a bad superhero. A tick? You know. That'd be the tick. He's essentially a lava.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Which is the child ant, you know?

SPEAKER_00 39:09

That's what he would be. A little slimy fella. Yeah, a little slimy fella. Spider-Man, definitely not a spider.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

No, no. Peter Parker's sort of got a nervous energy. He's almost like a Woody Allen.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah, he's actually quite a Woody Allen type.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Woody Allen is Spider-Man, would it sell? I think it really would. And I think at this age, he could really, it would really clean up his image.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

You know? Yeah, Tom Holland should stop taking his inspiration from Marty McFly and start taking it from neurotic Woody Allen.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

That's so true. He's so Marty McFly. God, but I just think Marty McFly's got something else, you know? He's got a little Maybe doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

He's got a teen wolf to him. That's what you need. Um, our next big set piece at the picnic is we we get these two like a married couple who want to help. What what what are they?

SPEAKER_01 39:53

They're wasps. Okay, well they are wasps. I think they're wasps. Um, but it's But they look down on ants. They're like, you guys are pathetic. Well they're like they're like upper British people, just like, oh my, the ants have tried to eat the food, but no. Oh, they're sort of looking at them like charity cases and almost like they were like animals, essentially. They lower beings. They're like, we can come help you. Um at one point, the the woman bug is immediately squashed.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

I gotta tell you, this this made me super sad. I was like, I'd forgotten about this, and it was almost like a triggering thing of where I was like, oh, I always hated that she died. Yeah, because they feel so in love, it feels yeah, exactly. So in love, and it's just because they want to get that guy drunk to the point that he helps. Yeah, but there's gotta be something, but again, that's how it is to be a bug. I know, but that's how it is to be a bug is.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

I just don't think the film is doing that much that.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

And that's the edge.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

I know the film's doing that whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

I'm like, I don't think we need to kill these guys, I think they just had fun. Yeah, but that's the edge. It's the reason critics gave us a 92% on Art Commander. It's a great film, it's just not for me.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

It's it's a head scratcher, you know? It's a it that's the thing. We're just too dumb for it, you know. It's like a Terrence Malik film, you know. You can kind of watch it go, look, I I liked it, I just didn't get it. And like if you give it five stars, great, I it's just not really for me. Oh, you know, sorry. Um, yeah, no, this woman is is is bashed in with a swatter, and then uh our boy aunt is like uh wasp is like, well, I guess I'll help you, but my life is kind of ruined now. So what do you guys want? I can fly you somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Um so they got stuck on some shoe on a shoe. Yeah, I really remember this from trailers. I remember this this ant, I remember this was a big scene in a trailer, likely on like a VCR. Yes, you know. Um so this wasn't this wasn't as as good as I remembered it being.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

I remember it vaguely, and I it was a lot more sad. I think like Sharon Stone plays the princess. Yeah. Uh and while she's on this gum issue, you're kind of like, oh, bit of fun, you know, stuck on her shoe. Her blood curling scream, curling scream is really distressing. Yeah. And you kind of think, I actually think this is the worst, because one, you're getting your body's getting mangled under a foot, and there's nothing you can do about it. You just keep like having this repeat and over and over again.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

I think um just on the on the on the note of Sharon Stone, yeah, I think another issue with the film is it is during this time of just we're just getting actors to do voice acting. Because I was watching a making of this morning just because it came up on my feed of all of the voice actors behind The Emperor's New Groove. And you go, these are all really interesting choices. Yeah. Like the David Spade is not a big name. Patrick Woolburton is not a big name. Of the kit is inspired casting as a villain. It feels really, and that and it really feels like they are a reflection of the drawn character on Sark.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

John Goodman and uh David Spade, if you stand them in a room, they give the energy of the character they're playing.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

100%. And there's something about Sharon Stone and Sylvester Stallone, Woody Allen, Woody Allen.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Christopher Walking is in this, and he's sort of like the V, not even the Vizier, like the sort of second in command of the general. Um and look, Christopher Walking's got a really distinct accent. It's weird him playing it probably the the like straight as I've ever heard him play it.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Just about the most I'm saying these lines is Woody Allen. Yeah. There's not a lot of and I think there really was a time where this this was getting to a point where what what like I think Dreamworks got better at this because then I think they turned around and they really nailed it with Shrek. Yeah. And they said we want to get superstars, but we're getting like Mike Myers to do a weird accent. Yes. And uh it's fun that uh Cameron Diaz works as Fiona as the princess, but she's actually gonna work even better once she makes the transformation to an ogre. Like there really is a great they're utilizing the showmanship of using big celebrities. It is, yeah. I would love I genuinely love her like voice performances, Fiona. I always have. I think Fiona's easily one of the when if you line up the female characters in ants to Shrek Membula. But I think a lot of the things in Shrek are direct like they're learning things that they're fixing from ants. Yeah. And they're going, these are really weak female characters, we want to have a strong one over here in Shrek.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah. Just time of the times. You know, it's it feels it feels like a dated film.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

The issue with um the issue with ants is I I genuinely think it doesn't have a sidekick. And I think something really smart in Shrek is go, we'll give him a sidekick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

We'll have Donkey. I think them also almost like preemptively being like, what if he's annoying and that's his issue? Like I feel like a lot of them already are just annoying. Yeah. But they were like, and that's really early on as well. Because I feel like maybe it was a 90s sort of thing of like, what's an annoying sidekick?

SPEAKER_00 44:47

He's annoying, but his heart's in the right place. Yes. And can Shrek get over that?

SPEAKER_01 44:50

And also I think Shrek actively being fucking pissed off at him. You're right.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

But that's good conflict of comedy as well. Yeah. Because while both of the characters are being developed, we're laughing. Yes. There's so few jokes in this movie. A lot of the jokes are the shock death, really.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

I think, yeah, that's and that's not maybe comedy. It's distressing. And I think sometimes Woody Allen does like, uh brother, you know, being a bloody ant, you know, it's tough to be a man. Yeah, no, that's I think almost surreal that like this this guy is an ant.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

When you put down ants on paper and it is just about like this fascist takeover starring Woody Allen in a violent ant movie, it just sounds ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

It just seems odd that it's ants. Like I'm just odd that it's ants. Yeah. I don't think they wanted it to be ants, you know.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

It must have been wild where they got to the finished product and they were like, what the fuck is this? What do we spend the our investors are gonna be angry? Did you see the early footage of a Bug's Life? That looks like a kid's movie. It looks vibrant, looks fun.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

That's I mean, I mean, we'll get into it, but uh to Bugs Life next week, but um that feels I like I'm very validated of just like this is awful and strange, you know? I can't imagine people being like, I loved it as a kid. Like you watched it as a kid, that's all it was. You watched it as a kid, and you like like but watch us now. It's strange. Um, we get them, they get back. I feel like they're in like Valhalla, and I feel like they're like, uh I think the metaphor is maybe paradise isn't good and we should go back to our working life. I don't know why they leave.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Well, it's just because they need the queen. Yeah. So she's essentially kidnapped and he has to go back. He doesn't want to live there on his own. He's grown a heart, he's grown some bravery. Yeah. Uh, so he has to go back and get the queen. And it was very funny to me that the ant just flies over, cuts the entire trip in half, and is like just picks her up and takes her back. Yeah. You go, wow, that really undercuts this journey. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

A bit of a waste of time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Even the villains, like, that place is real. That and they'll they're probably there. It's not hard to get to. Yeah, you and you can just fly over. You can see it. Like, it's just it's very literally just there.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Yeah. And look, we're not there because why would we?

SPEAKER_00 47:01

We should probably be closer if we're being honest. But not for us.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

But it's not really, it's not really a I'm gonna breed them good. Yeah, I'm gonna fuck that fucking queen. God damn. I'm gonna I I also think uh what's his name? Um, Gene Hackman uh is also like a very old, and he's like, can't wait to can't wait to put my penis in you. And it's a bit uh that's a fun motivation, I think. Because you're he's a creep.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

And again, it's it's it's it's they're keeping it all to ants. Yeah, they're keeping it all to this is what it's like. The the younger one would be sold off to like the heaviest hitter. And you go, that's it's yuck. As a kid, I don't know if I want to see that this is how an ant's world works.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Yeah, it's pretty real. Um I don't think I want that. But yeah, no, Woody Allen returns. At this point, the general's like, you know what? I'm gonna kill all everyone. Everyone.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

Um got a great idea on how to drown them. Yeah. And you know, this is this is it feels like a really big moment because we've got this guy who's been like, you've got to keep mining. Yeah. And he's the one that's like, they wouldn't try and kill us, and then boom, this guy likely dies. Yeah. He comes undone because of it. Yeah. And that's it's it's a tough pill to swallow.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

And that's ants in a nutshell. Because yeah, no, the the big uh hive is then uh filled with water. Yeah. And these ants have to work together to get out of there. Because what's the general's plan? He wants to kill he just wants a hard reset.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

He just wants a hard reset. Yeah. He wants just strong ants, new colony. Yeah. That's the reason he needs the queen. Sorry, that's the reason he needs the princess, is he's killing the old queen. Yeah. And he knows because as ants work, the worker ants only serve the queen. So there's no reason to keep them at all. Yes. He can't start another colony if he does that. So it's it's look, it's a well-thought-out plan. Frankly, the movie has a lot more in common with Dune.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

It feels Dune-esque, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 48:50

There's some shots where you go, This feels Dune. It's got sort of the colour palette of Dune. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

I feel like Denis really took a lot from ants. Yeah. And actually, Timothy's doing a lot of Woody. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Yeah, he's doing a big Woody Allen impression.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

He was in that umbrella of Shambhore and he was like, Oh, what's that fucking one called? Did you have you seen that? The one where Timothy Chalet is in the Woody Allen film.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Oh, a beautiful day in New York. Yeah. Or rainy day in New York. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't seen that.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

That one where he had to give away all the money. There was a there was an email leaked, I think it was in the Epstein thing, and someone, I think the his publicist was just like, he was so pissed. He did not want to. He was like, Well, I don't have to give back the money. It's just, I work with Woody. Sue me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

I did a bit partner film. He's like, I'm I want money. I haven't made Dune or Wonka yet. Still Wonka.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

I've got Wonka bones, you know. I've got Wonka money.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

I haven't got the point of getting 20 million a film. I needed that rainy money. I spent it all already as well. This is gonna put me in the hole. I have to do another Woody Allen movie to get myself out of this. I can make that money too. All I've done was call me by your name a beautiful boy. They weren't his.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Um, but yeah, no, they defeat the big guy.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

They defeat the big guy. He he's his own. I do like that uh there's there's a thing in children's movies it's it's hard to think about because it's a lot in children's movies is the villain accidentally killing themselves. Are there many children's movies where they actively kill the villain?

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Um being the beast know he falls down. I feel like the tar's anime f he hangs himself accidentally. Um I feel like they try and avoid it. Yeah, I think they really try and avoid it. Like if you see Buzz Light yeah, you know, stab Sid in the eye, you know, it's a bit like, oh blah, you know? So one's a Sid, he just gets he just gets his come up and gets freaked out. Yeah, you know? Yeah, you never you never want your protagonist to kill. Yeah. I think it's a bad thing. Which I think is a shame. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

Look, I know the incredibles they don't kill.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

No, Sidrome kills himself by by accident. Pretty brutally brutally, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

One of the one of the best, one of the best deaths to do it.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

I can't think of a one off the top of my head. Have you ever seen Black Cauldron?

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Oh, I've seen scenes. I know the the scene at the because Black Cauldron's got that beautifully horrifying animation.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

It's it's real I watched it a lot as a kid. I didn't realize what it was culturally. One in the 1980s that bankrupt Disney or something like that. Um but it's also so angry and violent, and like one with a sidekick kills himself, really horrible. But I'm pretty sure the villain is killed in a pretty gruesome way, you know. Um, but yeah, so they stop doing that. Yeah, we should do back cauldron.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

I guess the only one actually that is um an active death is in Shrek when they're like, eat him. And the dragon's like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Yeah, which I think they're just playing off like the Yeah, they're play they're they're they're god they're good. Yeah, you know. Shrek gets its dues, but it's pretty good. Yeah, it is good.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Yeah, yeah, they are just like, just eat him. Yeah, which is the same as shooting a gun. Yeah. You have brought a gun to the wedding, and then you ask the gun to fire.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Totally. If anything, it's more gruesome. It's a gut uh biomes game, you know?

SPEAKER_00 52:11

There's no arm. I was watching um Who Froned Roger Rabbit the other day, and uh that guy dying at the end is pretty graphic. Did he get steamrolled? Is that sorry? No, he gets steamrolled, and that's the reveal he's a cartoon, and then he's melted, and he's uh out exterior human flesh is left, but the cartoon with him in him is melted. Right. It's uh it's a real moment, it's a real fucking moment. You know, that movie really holds up visually. I I can imagine.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

I can imagine, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Yeah, it's crazy what happened to Robert Semeckis. What a shame.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Yeah, and the guy who did the animation for that did um a bunch of other great stuff as well.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

It's so well animated, and I mean it's it's also fun too because it's all of Disney and Warner Brothers cartoons chilling and having fun. Yeah. And you just can't imagine the studios doing that now. No, having just to be like, yeah, that'll be fun. You can throw Mickey in there for a little bit. A bit cheeky. One of the things we thought was interesting when watching it, this is completely off the rails now, but um Donald Duck has a lot of edge in it, and he's way more like evil.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

I think he can be. Donald Duck's always.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

Well, I think they but I think they've removed Donald Duck's edge. Like, I think you go now. Like, isn't it nuts how much like when you go what Donald Duck used to be versus what he is now, they've completely redone that character. Yeah. You just haven't really noticed. They've 100% butchered him. He used to be very killy.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Yeah. I just think, you know, with the way the world's going, you know, where where's Donald in this whole thing? It's just not alright.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Remember a lot of the cartoons used to hold guns? Used to be like you've gotta find you. Well, Elma Fudd, like Tom and Jerry, they're always having a gun.

SPEAKER_01 53:43

Double barreled as well, just like sticking in a mouse joke.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

It's the best of the guns. It's good gun.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

It is a comedy gun.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Anything worth talking about here at the end, by this point, I feel like I've completely fallen out of my interest in the movie.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

100%. It pans out and does sort of like a nut a New York reveal.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

When they're all saved, it's just a narration that goes, we started a new colony and it was better. Yeah. Bye. They are out quick. They are so out so quick. Yeah. Really, cogs in like 79 minutes. Yeah. And then there's like 10 minutes of credits because that many people had to work on the film.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Oh my god, you should see these ant animations, guys. It's just gorgeous. Just gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

I would watch ants. It is. It's funny because I think I did still kind of nail it in saying that I thought it was for a kid that wanted a bit more bite in their animated movies. Yes. Like you are, I even now I am watching it and I go, animated movies don't get made like this much. No. And that not and it is a bad film. Yeah, that's not like a film. But there is there is like a level of violence to it, and the fact they've gone, a lot of bugs die, and we're showing what it is to be an ant. A lot of ants are gonna die in the film. Yeah. And that is kind of fun. But I think you're gonna have to really get them at the right age to massage them to like it.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

It feels like you are doing like a naughty, like, oh, I'm watching an M film, but you're not watching an M film, it's still a kids' film.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Told my brother that we were reviewing this, and he was, and I was like, Do you reckon you'll ever show your kids? And he said, I would never think to have put on ants for anyone. So I don't think ants will be around for the next generation.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

Ants is gone. And I and I think, honestly, without the Pixar label over it, I don't know how well Bugs Life saying that they're bugs.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

When do they get to a point where they start mining these wells? Where they've gone, we've done 40 toy stories, it's now time to do a Bug's Life 2. I think, I think.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

What else they got? Incredibles, Up. I guess Up isn't getting one. I feel like Rad Tui 2 might be a thing.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Yeah, I think Brad Bird's probably like over my dead body. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Um, but Up, I don't know if we get another one. It feels too by itself. I can't imagine. And the story of Up isn't that interesting.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

The dog below. I just don't know. No one forget that. You might do an Up 2.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Remember they did that du uh was they did that short? You know it. And we were both like, who cares? Who gives a shit? It's just the what I think what was nice about Up is it's one of the Pixar movies that is remembered probably because the adventure's so good and they filled it with great characters, and that's just like a nice those characters were written to go on the adventure. Yeah. But they don't actually suit going on any other adventure.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

No, it'd be weird for them to be like Carl and the guy will be friends.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Yeah. We've aged up this kid to be 40, and now he needs to go back, and you're like, I would rather shoot myself. That sounds so lazy.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Whereas I believe Flick and the gang could really bring something to the world. Funny enough, Bug Life 2 definitely has the one where you're like, yeah, I could you could do it.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

They should water for elephants it. If they did a water elephant, it's doing well. Yeah. I think it's it's now time that they're the Circus Soleise coming back into it, and that's what the future. They're going, we're doing car. Oh, there'd be we got a residency and we're doing car with Bugs.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

You're saying the plot is that it's a modernized, like, guys, circus are really doing us dirty. We've got to try and like beat them, you know. How are we gonna do how are we gonna up our game? I don't know if you remember, but some of the ants do join the circus at the end. So I'd love to see their story.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

I'm excited to watch a Bugs Life.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

What are you gonna give Ants? I'd love to find out. Sorry? What am I gonna be giving it?

SPEAKER_00 57:28

It's good like as a star rating.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

I I think we need to figure out we need because we need to figure out which one's better.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

So, how do you want to do this? Because I actually think it might be fun as well. So, after we do a Bugs Life episode to do like a 30-minute episode that is like a versus and we do a fun little comparison chat. Crazy, not crazy just to mix up the format, yeah. Change it up a little bit. No, it's just it'll be fun to it'll be fun to do something new.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

We're figuring it out, and then and then Bugs Life doesn't have a an advantage or a disadvantage. That's right. It's just if I just watched it and I'm like, I'm angry, then it's gonna lose, you know?

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Absolutely. Um, I think at the moment ants is winning because I haven't seen a bug's life again. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

I've seen Bugs Life and I and I know it's winning.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

I can't comment. Ants is winning at the moment, Ants is winning, and you know what? I a part of me thinks I'm gonna watch a Bugs Life and it's gonna be so boring, and by then I'll have forgotten ants because it's been a week, and I'll go, from my memory, I liked ants more.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

Completely ruined the format. I think you're gonna get a lot out of uh Kevin Spacey's uh foolish brother. I think I think that character no recollection of that character in the slightest. The villain has a brother, the villain has a brother, and he's really funny. Okay, I remember the child being like, This guy is good.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

Funnier, funnier than our generation's comedic genius, Sylvester Stallone.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

Precisely.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

Wow, there you go. Precisely uh well, that's what we'll be doing a bug's life next week. Oh, sorry, did you do your who would watch this?

SPEAKER_01 58:57

I think we got the gist.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

I think we have it we have because we're back into just so just people know the inner workings of the podcast. There was a while where Oscar was doing a lot of the editing of the podcast, and now we're back to being able to do it, take turns doing it. Um, and now that I've been re-back into doing it, we do really have a habit of I will I will just keep on chatting. I'll completely steamroll you with the who would watch this, and you'll go, it's fine. Undercover time from the edge.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

I feel like I threw like a one thing in there, just like you're like, what? It's been done. It's been done. I love the idea of this podcast of someone hating the bulk, yeah, and then being like, guys, I'm just here to figure out who would watch it.

SPEAKER_00 59:38

Skip me a YouTube video to see the star rating. They get to the who would watch it to find out it's just me, just me chatting away.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

Oh, thank you for listening. Thank you very much for listening, and we will see you next week when we will watch uh Bugs Live Live.