Who Would Watch This?

Who Would Watch 'Michael' (2026)?

• Oscar & Carl • Season 6 • Episode 33

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Oscar and Carl surprise themselves by going to the cinema on opening weekend to see 'Michael (2026)', only to discover that the film is so atrocious, they moved the scheduled film to get in on the discussion.

Together, they discuss what’s missing from the film, what happened to Bubbles, where the $200 million budget went, and, of course, the ultimate question: who would watch this?

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SPEAKER_03

My name is Oscar. My name is Carl. And this is Who Would Watch This. Welcome to Who Would Watch This podcast? We watch a film, we chat about the film, and then we try and figure out who would watch this. Today we're talking about Michael, which currently has a 3.6 on Letterboxd, the 7.7 on IMDB, and a 38% on Rotten Tomatoes. That's that that's the reason we're doing it, guys. That 38% from the critics.

SPEAKER_01

We're allowed to do it then.

SPEAKER_03

Tick tick tick tick. Dun dun done. Oscar, what's the plot?

SPEAKER_01

The story of the king of pop Michael Jackson from his childhood of being the star of the Jackson 5 through times of abuse by his father, Joe Jackson, to his hit thriller and the purchase of Neverland Valley into his tragic and unspected death of June 25, 2009. Does not get into the death.

SPEAKER_03

Doesn't get into the back half of the synopsis that we just read, actually. No, it's all as a bit of a thing. Nothing's about Netherland Ranch. Nope.

SPEAKER_01

Even though he keeps looking at the book. And here's the thing, I trust IMDB pretty pretty religiously, you know. So it's pretty fucked up that a synopsis ain't correct. But pretty much as Michael Jackson biopic, you know the story. Come watch it for the hijinks. Carl, we weren't gonna do this.

SPEAKER_03

We weren't. We this wasn't on the cards for us.

SPEAKER_01

This wasn't on the cards for us, you know. We were going to do versus month, whatever that means. We'll still go.

SPEAKER_03

We're not sure what it is, but I love that we've called it that, and that's what we'll be moving ahead with.

SPEAKER_01

We were going to watch Michael for my partner's birthday. She was because I think we saw the trailer, and I think we were like, that'll be fun. Yeah. Bit stupid, but fun. Yeah. We watched in horror when we were in the cinemas. It's I think there was a group of boys next to us that also were there a bit ironically, and it sort of started, and you go They came in with a lot of energy too.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I think they were a bit of buzz. Yeah. You know, and they went dead silent, didn't they? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Just didn't really know what to do with it, you know. I think because I think we were the same, like, you know what, this might be a bit silly, uh, but like I'm happy for a Bohemia Rhapsody-esque. Yeah. Which I don't know why that would be a better version of this, but this is different, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, just something about this is a this is a whole movie is off. And it's been I think I've watched in horror once. Once when the movie was unfolding, and a second time seeing everybody decide they love it. Which I think is fucking through me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I just because I I think we were looking at, and again, it's you know, it's opening weekend, so this might come down, yeah, the money might stop flowing in. At the moment, it doesn't look like it's looking like it's gonna be doing that. It could be a bit, and yeah, it's people angry. People are angry, like normally, like you know, a superhero one, you're like, that's right, guys, chill, don't worry about that. The flash ain't that good, you know. Uh, but this one seems to be like pretty aggressively, like, no, this is the greatest thing that's ever happened, and you're a monster if you think it's low. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03

So it's it's and it's just tough because especially when I I would go out on a limb and say this I you couldn't even really call this a movie. So it's it's tough when they're like, it's the biggest movie maybe of the year. And you're like, but that's not even a film. It's just pictures.

SPEAKER_01

We've stitched together eight scenes of a guy you know, and you and isn't that fun? Yeah. Isn't that the film? Isn't that what the film's all about, huh?

SPEAKER_03

We're gonna let you know that Michael's best friend is his driver, and we're not gonna explain why. Don't worry about that now, who he is to each other. Miles Teller's a lawyer. Isn't that cool? God, that was I forget Miles Teller's in this, and I think he's keen on people forgetting.

SPEAKER_01

Carl, okay, so should we get into I feel like roughly Which basically means we didn't do a last week segment.

SPEAKER_03

No, we weren't anticipating reviewing it. No. I just I just didn't think it was going to be this bad.

SPEAKER_01

Me neither. I thought like a bit cheesy, but at least some of the songs are slap, and you know, they'll brush over the everything you know, Michael. But this is like a this is like a I feel like I'm I'm brainwashed and just like wasn't he? He was kind of a Jesus S figure that did nothing wrong. Yeah, you're a bit like, I don't know, guys.

SPEAKER_03

He sort of just walked around hospitals a lot. Yeah. Like that's a proper thing in the film, is him just being like, I love hospitals.

SPEAKER_01

He he not doesn't heal sick children, but pretty much almost implies that I think his healing hands does. There's four shots of him having a moment with a sick child. And you know, I don't know what why. I know I know why, I guess.

SPEAKER_03

I know I think Jafar Jackson's playing it as Jesus. Yeah. Like when he's walking around, it feels like Antoine Foucault's been like, and right now you are Jesus and go. And you've healed the blind. You heal the blind. Boom. Bam. Good for you. And boom, there we go. Now go write Billy Jean.

SPEAKER_01

But we did come into it because I think we were keen because essentially the film's production was, hey, we didn't film the ending. We're like, huh? They're like, legally, we couldn't kind of cover, which would have been a crazy honestly. Now seeing what the tone of this film is and seeing Michael Jackson as Jesus, I can't imagine him in a court setting.

SPEAKER_03

It well, I just feel like the movie is unfolding at such such a slow, benign rate, and it never really has a point of view. And so I can only imagine him sitting in the courtroom being like, I didn't do it. Yeah. And then and then it would just be the next scene. Yeah. And they're like, and then they're like, and now for the next problem. Like it's it I feel like it would unfold in such a like a when they say the ending of the movie was the trial, I'm like, what, four minutes? Like, are we actually saying it was that crescendo?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know where, because I think the biggest issue is you're right, like, there's no kind of through line. Not that someone's life is a narrative, no, like you're making a movie.

SPEAKER_03

But the best movie biopics are the ones where they form a narrative. I think look at you really liked the apprentice apprentice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that is forms a pretty good perspective.

SPEAKER_01

The rise of him, him being corrupted, like that whole thing, social network. Like it's just like we're seeing a character and how this the these events make them the person they are, which is what a biopic should be.

SPEAKER_03

But I think the issue is that the Jackson estate doesn't want to say what type of person he is. No, I think they just want to be like, Jack, Michael Jackson was alive and important, but they don't want to tell you what type of a person he was, which means you're always at arm's length away from getting invested in anything in the field.

SPEAKER_01

And I think the only one they're happy to be like, okay, we'll show you this is that his father was abusive. Yeah. Should we get in? Because I think that's everyone knows that. Everyone knows it, you can't avoid it. Michael's talked about it and said he's given him tick tick tick. Yes. That's all you've really got as like sort of a not even a through line, but just sort of motivation and just what he's up against, you know? Uh, do you want to get into the star of the film? Was there anything you guys want to cover?

SPEAKER_03

No, I think that's I think that's where we're at. And now, now we can begin.

SPEAKER_01

Carl, it's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory esque, Tim Burton's 2005, Willy Wonka, sad little house, you know, beds of just five children staring a bed.

SPEAKER_03

I was waiting for a narrator. Yeah. I was waiting for somebody to be like, little Michael Jackson.

SPEAKER_01

In the land of Gary, Indiana. Five boys. The youngest of them all became the singing superstar, Michael Jackson.

SPEAKER_02

And his father would hit him.

SPEAKER_01

So it feels roll Dalesque. Even his dad, uh, because played by Coleman Domingo, who is I I guess is the best part of the film. More just that I feel like his character is comically evil. You know, he's scheming, he's conniving, and Coleman Domingo, I guess he's got natural character. Everyone else feels like a blank slave, just like they did nothing wrong.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, I think that's why he feels big is because they've gone, the only the only person we've made our mind up about is the dad. Yeah. We're happy for the dad to be a villain. And so this actor's able to run with it, and the movie's able to just label him a villain. Yeah. And I think because everybody else is doing fucking nothing in any scene, Dilroy Lindo's basically been like, I'll just pick up the pieces then. Coleman Domingo. Coleman Domingo's basically just been like, I'll just pick up the pieces then. Yeah. So he's a great actor. So it's yeah, no, no. But I think he's coming across heightened and campy because he's trying to bring any sort of energy into the movie.

SPEAKER_01

Well, because everyone else, unfortunately, is alive and a producer of the film. So so they're just like the Jackson 5s there watching Michael get beaten, they're like, that's wrong. And we should have stepped in and we didn't, but that's fine because he also hit. And it's just all of this like hands-off, like it was so unopinionated.

SPEAKER_03

I was like, is the dad hitting them? Do they care that he's hitting Michael? Like it was really tough for me to even gauge what was going on. I don't I don't I'm not even sure if the Jackson 5 wanted to go on tour. Did they? Didn't they? No, the Jackson 5.

SPEAKER_01

The Jackson 5 really is given nothing. They are these blank slate four characters who I don't that are ambivalent to Michael's success. They barely have lines. They don't have lines. They're what's it called? It's uh Marlon, Jermaine, Jackie, and Tito, you know. They have given sort of like I just I can't imagine they wouldn't be angry or upset of like someone getting more power and fame. It's crazy to just go, they were fine with it. It's all good.

SPEAKER_03

And they were all living in a house together. Yeah. So you just feel like their whole life for ages, as far as this movie is like. There's seven of them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Uh for some reason, Janet's not doesn't want to be in the film, which I thought was funny. So she's just not there.

SPEAKER_03

Honestly, love it. Love it that she's just like that. This story isn't anything. She's like, this isn't even close to what happened. What are you fucking on about? Get out of here. I think it would be great if they're I know they're doing that second movie of this Michael. It'd be great if they do a little detour for Janet.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. A little spin-off. Sort of sort of a Disney Plus show. Maybe it's like a little five episode. Yeah, I could say that. Just a little spin off, you know? Yeah. Like when uh when when when Vision and Scarlet Witch had a little show, Wonder Vision. Yeah, but that was a bit of a short one. Janet Vision.

SPEAKER_03

She was like, I was erased from the Michael film. How do I get back into it? And she makes her way by the time because it'd be great if the second one comes out and she's just a character. Yeah. And everybody's like, there were always this many in the last one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't I you know what? They probably will. Honestly, now this has made so much money, it's like, put me in the film. Yeah. Put me in the film.

SPEAKER_03

Janet's like, you'll meet a bit of.

SPEAKER_01

I want to have a big scene. Big scene. But yeah, Coleman Domingo, again, it is like a fairy tale. Like he's like a coal miner. He's like, I'm working the mines and I want to get you boys out. He's using their like skills and their talent, uh, running them pretty aggressively. But it doesn't, I don't know, it sort of breezes over like their success and how they came up, just that they're doing well. That's what I thought. They're pretty much immediately doing well.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and that was the it's sort of the first thing that gets got me on a bad foot, essentially. Because I was like, oh, so if we're not gonna really explain what the success of this is, we're probably not gonna be doing it at all in the movie. And I was like, and that's a bad omen ahead.

SPEAKER_01

Real bad omen, because I think the biggest crime is that it's just hindsight of just you know he wrote thriller, so he writes thriller and then he makes thriller. And you're like, I don't how?

SPEAKER_03

What gave him the idea? Yeah. Why why did he decide to do like a horror-themed like song? Yeah. Why did he want it that way? Why do you have John's?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like I again basic knowledge of Michael Jackson. I know him and Quincy Jones work together rigorously.

SPEAKER_00

Is that cute?

SPEAKER_01

That's cute.

SPEAKER_00

That's cute.

SPEAKER_01

He do to make thriller in that whole album. And it's odd they never show them as just like, here's me looking cool in a costume. Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, that's them in the 60s, 70s coming up.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I mean that's your first, they just sort of have a montage being like, This is we're just brushing over all of this. I think it's odd when you go because I think if you're looking at this movie for reasons to either make it shorter, save the budget, have the movie flow better, a lot of this isn't necessary. You can basically start the movie when he's thinking about firing his dad.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, totally. I think it even it almost feels like it can cut in. Just him looking out the window, sort of being like, I'm gonna fire my dad. Yeah. I mean the Jackson 5 is interesting, and it's you know, I think the problem is I've kept that in almost to have you berry very sympathetic to Michael, because then throughout the whole film, you know, he's very not stunted, but he's scared of his dad.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Just the character. I don't mean Michael as a because they're not even bothering with that, but he's sort of stunted, he's scared of his dad, and his whole sort of arc is standing up for himself.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Uh which he, spoilers, never does. No. He never never does it face to face. No. Even at the end when you're like, oh, this is a big moment for him, not face to face. No. Still a little scaredy cat out to the crowd.

SPEAKER_01

But I think the film is also held back by the thing they made up, and I think Michael Jackson's on record being like, Yeah, he was fine for that. So it's this odd tiptoeing around any like sort of narrative, like, it doesn't feel good, you know. You're left with nothing. But anyway, they get signed by a record label and then they're immediately in the mansion.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. It's it's uh it's like a hard cut into basically being like, and now and now this is where it is. Yeah. Even though we've spent sort of, I don't know, what do you reckon? Like 15, 20 minutes with this opening. Yeah. And again, it just doesn't feel like you go, is this movie gonna like start or pose a question or do anything to sort of get you going? But even by this point, none of all of the music's done in montage. Uh and I go, okay, this is I feel like I'm already I'm already off. I'm already off the film. And you know what? The fun of the situ it's the movie has a huge lack of energy. I think it's really it's like not cut together in an interesting way. Yeah. The montages aren't like a fun creative flair montage. Yeah. Something sort of like I don't think the movie is void of style. Yes. Which is crazy considering you've got sort of the biggest style pop guy.

SPEAKER_01

The best, the best part of the whole film is that the Michael Jackson Estate had to make a film company, and they've got him moonwalking, and then it's got like a sort of 90s uh Disney star coming off his shoes. And I went, wow. If that's what we're doing, I'm all in for it. They don't even go for it. It also has the style, all the background stuff is so sterile. Yeah. It's that I I don't know if it's that Netflix, but it's just everyone in the background looks like they've just come out of just, you know, just grab people. They look very everyone here. No one looks very 60s or 70s or 80s.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, nothing look this movie does not feel like it's a period of just the 60s, 70s, or the 80s. No. None of them, none of it feels like it could all just be happening in LA right now.

SPEAKER_01

And unfortunately, the uh Jafar, when he's a bit older, Michael, I think they've sort of done little things to make him feel different, but I could not tell you him from 20 to 35, you know?

SPEAKER_03

It's hard to know if what they've done is they've got so much footage, they've had to omit so much of it to the point of it feeling like there's not really anything happening. Or if they have chosen to because look, the movie feels like its coverage is so bland, it could be recut in in just a any movie could be made out of the footage that's currently here. So it's it's weird that the movie's going strictly linear, no cutting forward, no cutting back, just at the beginning he comes out on his way to go sing bad, and then it's just the linear film until he sings that at the end.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Because I guess they weren't sure this is gonna make my I honestly, fairs to them. I think they went, ooh, this is a bit of a mess.

SPEAKER_03

Let's see if people jump on board and it's the most standingly generic like way to do this. They made it palatable for any person, really.

SPEAKER_01

Unless you sort of engage with it a bit.

SPEAKER_03

And then you're sort of like what you'd think of this film if you didn't know who Michael Jackson was.

SPEAKER_01

Well that's what we I mean, I don't think I'm a big Michael Jackson fan. I like the music, but I didn't know anything about I felt like I knew that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I know very broad strokes. I think me and you probably have the exact same knowledge of him. I don't really go out and seek Michael Jackson's music, but I know he was a big figure. Yeah. I know that his songs were fucking huge. Like, and it would be interesting to know everything that's sort of going on in this in this fucking weirdo's life. Yeah, this is a weird man. Totally. And he had animals, and he had like this guy like eventually becomes white. Like he must have a weird psyche. Yes. And it doesn't want to touch anything interesting.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's what's confusing, because you then you've got essentially it's crazy there's no what they're gonna do for the sequel, because I think it is getting a sequel now. Because you've set up this character that is very, I think, sort of hands-off responsibility, yeah, sort of a bit childlike, trying to figure everything out, but it's very innocent as not as being corrupted by just the father. Not even the industry is taking advantage of so when we think the industry is super kind to him, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

He's not really facing any adversity.

SPEAKER_01

No, so I think it'll be really odd to see these allegations come into the film, and it'll be kind of disgusting, pretty much. Yeah, I don't know how you deal with this incredibly odd man who at one point was almost was the person that was being abused, and then has almost had so much power and fame and status that they can allegedly, you know, abuse people, and you're like, Well, that's just how the hell are you gonna put this into the tone of this film, you know?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and knowing that it's like and and having seen this movie's first product, you go, Well, they're not gonna have a nuanced conversation about it anyway. So then it's like they're just putting it in there. It's gonna be weird.

SPEAKER_01

It's gonna be so weird. It's gonna be so weird because they'll go with I think I guess either the victims uh were taking advantage of them, Michael Jackson, or that the media twisted it in a weird way. But man, I don't even know how you do that. Because at one point, like he's like signing stuff because he's so famous. Yeah, he doesn't feel like he's like overwhelmed, he feels like he's like a small YouTuber, just like, hey, we all know you, you know. We also he does.

SPEAKER_03

He feels like, I don't know, not Mr. Beast, but like someone the only one I can think of is that cancelled one. I'm like, if you if somebody ran into Cody Co. Yeah, you know pre-cancelling. Yeah, you're like, oh yeah, nice, oh my god, Cody Coe's.

SPEAKER_01

And maybe someone else would be like, Can I get a selfie as well? But that's about it. Yeah, that's it, you know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

It's like if you ran into any of the main leads that aren't Zoe Duchanel from New Girl. Oh, yeah. That's that's probably what it is.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe or Winston. If Winston was on the street. Because I'd walk by Winston, yeah. But somebody would say that's Winston from New Girl. Oh, cool. And then if we were like, maybe we'll get itself, that's exactly the fame Michael Jackson has for the whole film.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you know, Michael Jackson in this film is comparable to Schmidt from New Girl. Yeah, heard it here first. They've done a great job.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, we get to like the uh the mansion, and this is where like Joe's, you know, controlling behind the scenes. I'm a Jackson Far just playing basketball, chilling. They're just having a good time.

SPEAKER_03

Now, Michael, he's a little he's a little trickster, he loves animals, he loves this was something that I also thought they didn't want to dive into, but we literally do see them live in this tiny house, three people to a room, and suddenly Michael Jackson as a kid has a giant fucking room. Yeah. I'd love to know what that must have felt like for him or the family.

SPEAKER_01

Or if getting such it feels everything feels so like we're at we're at the end point, and we're almost being like, oh yeah, I guess we were rich, we were poor, and then we're rich. Yeah. And it's crazy not to see that. I don't know why they don't go for like he's like buying in excess. Yeah. He's going to the toy store. And it's all portrayed as like, he's just doing him. But that must be crazy to have zero and then go for literally whatever you want. He buys a monkey and a giraffe, which is kind of shown as like a bit comedic, but surely that's insane. Surely the giraffe wasn't happy.

SPEAKER_03

No. Like it's because this are they in LA? They're in LA.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. That giraffe shouldn't be in LA, right? No, it's crazy the giraffe. I'm I'm assuming it's for real. A lot of the stuff I don't know is real.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I know, and I mean we've and we'll talk about it, but some of the stuff is not real. Because I went and looked it up and I was like, well, why is it even in the film then if this isn't real?

SPEAKER_01

But I'm taking the animals at face value. Yeah, I assume there was a giraffe, a llama, and I guess bubbles, the famous monkey. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we know the monkey was there. Which makes me go, well, then we should make up the giraffe. Bubbles still alive. You know that? I couldn't believe that. Really? Jackson's estate is just paying, like, just like sort of like retirement home for bubbles, which I thought was nutty.

SPEAKER_03

I'd love to know how much bubbles got for severance. As soon as, as soon as Michael died, they were like, put bubbles in a home. This is gonna kill bubbles, put them in a home.

SPEAKER_01

Imagine living the life of a Michael Jackson excess and then being in a shitty orangutan in a freaking gorilla.

SPEAKER_03

Don't worry, you're finally gonna go into your natural habitat. And he's like, my fucking natural habitat.

SPEAKER_01

I've been living in a mansion for 20 years. I have cigars and cocaine regularly. You think I'm gonna be going off fruit? I fucking with print. I'm gonna go to a fucking zoo.

SPEAKER_02

Really, that's the tragedy.

SPEAKER_03

That's the tragedy is the fact that bubbles relegated to a horrible life post-Mael Jackson's death.

SPEAKER_01

Him just in that old monkey home, just being like, I used to have it all. Just in the up. Yeah. No one calls.

SPEAKER_03

In the Caesar, being like, I once ruled the world, and he's like, oh, sure you fucking did Caesar. Get me out of here.

SPEAKER_01

And his circus is just taking notes. Like, I gotta be one of these monkeys soon. I'll bring it up.

SPEAKER_03

You ever been down to the old monkey's home? So many stories.

SPEAKER_01

Just sit back and sit back and listen. Just listen, open your ears and open your heart. Um, yeah. So at this point, we're done the jump. Like it's Michael is now. I guess the big conflict is he's still in the Jackson 5, but he wants to be a solo artist.

SPEAKER_03

And this is where we went, oh okay. Now we we must have just been rushing through all this stuff for the big thing. For this thing that is, can anybody fire my dad? And can I go out on my own? And I was like, Yes, okay, now I'll get into this. Oof, doesn't last long. This guy, somebody goes, Hey, Michael's gonna make his own album, and they're like, That's fine, as long as he keeps being a part of the Jackson 5, and between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m., he's working for me, Joe Jackson. Yeah. Outside of that time, he can do whatever he fucking wants. And you go, oof, okay, how's he gonna be able to pull off this album?

SPEAKER_01

How the hell is Michael gonna be able to juggle being already an established career, and then also producing one of the greatest albums of all time?

SPEAKER_03

And creating one of the greatest albums of all time between the hours of five pm and like twenty. 12 a.m. Like just seven hours a day after a full day of work. How's he gonna do it? Pretty casual. The next thing we know, it's a hit.

SPEAKER_01

He has that. I feel like the two producers walk out of the room like, how's Michael gonna do it? And then it's smashed cuts to be.

SPEAKER_00

Even Michael walked around like, wow, that was really easy. Thanks, Quincy. Thanks, Q.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it was just the one thing we do love is the scene with Q.

SPEAKER_01

Quincy Jones is again, he's the producer of the all the big Michael Jackson albums. But Michael Jackson, for some reason, at one point is in the out, is in the studio, he's like, hey Q, can you turn down the lights?

SPEAKER_02

I just want to stay on my toes a little longer.

SPEAKER_01

Unfortunately, Michael Jackson, he uh the actor Jafar is Yeah, let's talk about Jafar. He's nailing the performance of Michael Jackson. The problem is Michael Jackson is an alien who is an odd being. So when he opened his mouth and was doing that voice, I'm like, that's ridiculous. I think so sick.

SPEAKER_03

It was always gonna not work because Michael Jackson's so odd. Yeah. And I think I still don't think Jafar Jackson's a talented enough actor to get it across. But he's a fucking incredible performer in the movie. The dancing's exceptional.

SPEAKER_01

Like, unfortunately, and what the film should have just been, they could have just got away with that, is almost all the concert stuff, not really the visuals or the background or the crowd, but him dancing with the songs, terrific. Yeah. At that point for the film, I was like, wow, seeing Michael Jackson shot cinematically in his like in his prime, that's fantastic. I see why he would be an amazing, crazy good performer. Yeah. And why some people jumped onto him and be like, wow, I've never seen someone sing a fantastic, catchy song and then move like that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and just move in such a weird way. And I think the shame for me is to not find out how he came up with his style of dance, which felt so I'm gonna, you know, grab parts of my body and move so jarringly, and I'm gonna just make sounds. I'm gonna go, hee hee.

SPEAKER_01

Why that's and no one pushes back on that, and that's fine. Yeah, but like crazy how does he develop that? Because it sort of alludes to like he's like, Oh, I like Fred Estare, I like these sort of like sing in the rain. These are my influences, and that's why he can dance. But he's dancing in such like a robotic, cool way, yeah, that it's odd, like it's like merging of these. I just don't know where these come from.

SPEAKER_03

No, and I want to know who fanned the flame. Because there's no way he was sitting there going, everyone's against me, and I'm gonna go out on top of it. Surely somebody in the booth's like, hey, do that hee he thing again. That's really interesting to me, and I think I kind of like it. Yeah. Let's play, let's mess with that. Yeah. Surely somebody is encouraging. Yeah, sure. Surely Q is fucking being like, Yes, get a little bit more weird on the mind. Yeah, go a little bit more odd with these things. Like, how does and it's great too because Michael Jackson was somebody, at least in this movie, is like, I like movies, and so he wants to make music videos even bigger with plots and have beginnings and ends of the song in the middle. And you go, that's great. Like, what's but how does that come to be? You suddenly got John Landis directing Thriller, but like, how'd you get John Landis? Yeah, what was what what is what how big are you? How are you this big? Like it they're not telling us anything.

SPEAKER_01

It's annoying the fuck out of me. Well, it's just them reminiscing, being like, You guys know it. I'm like, guys, I don't I don't, I'd love to I'd love the intricacies drama dramatized.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So anyway, after he's done his first big hit album with ease, yeah, which we just find out everyone loves, no matter what, they're just like, hey, everybody loves that. Yeah. Uh but you're gonna go back and and work for the Jacksons again. You're like, okay, and he's still living at home. And you're like, how many years is this now? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01

We know by like, I can look up the albums and know when they came out, but the film does not feel like it's time, you know, moving at all.

SPEAKER_03

They're not letting the time move in an interesting way. Like the the they are telling you what year it is, but there's a part where they just stop telling you what year it is, and then just sort of jump ahead and you go, okay, so was the main plot five years, I think.

SPEAKER_01

And you never and like I don't feel like you feel any like from where Michael Jackson is at the start of that album and to the end, I don't think he changes as a person. No, which he surely must have. He doesn't feel older. No, but to be like in the Jackson 5, part of like sort of a collective, and then be essentially the biggest superstar in the world, it's odd. He's like, I keep myself grounded. You know, it's not it's just odd he doesn't change in any way. So that when the time jump happens, you're like, I don't believe it, you know? Yeah, yeah, you you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_03

It just it completely just sort of runs its course. It is just it's like a it just sort of feels like what like when a kid's like, Hey, you want to see this move I just made up? And you're like, Okay, kid. And the kid just sort of does it and then goes on with their day.

SPEAKER_01

Kids love showing a move and then brushing it aside, you know? They've done it, they've achieved something, and then they can get on with their day. Like, you know, some of you guys should be, you know.

SPEAKER_03

My niece loves to run up and go, I can do 10 push-ups, does 10 horrible push-ups, frankly, bad form, none of it, right? Yeah, you show me. And then she runs and she runs away. Yeah. I don't even get to give her any praise. Yeah. Or critiques. Yeah, but she needs. Which she needs. But the it's and you go, okay, well, I guess that's done. That's what this whole film feels like. That's exactly what the whole film feels like.

SPEAKER_01

Now let's get into some of the sort of funkier things, because we've also got the bodyguard, Bill.

SPEAKER_03

Look, Bill was Bill was a big part of the film. And he was he was he was he was a lovely part of the movie. Now, look, for a lot of the runtime, I kept asking who I was with, is this Macklemore? Did you think it was Macklemore? I did not think.

SPEAKER_01

When I raised Is that Macklemore? We laughed at you because that's an insane thing to say.

SPEAKER_03

No, I think it's because you guys thought I was saying Michael Moore, and then you thought that was preposterous, and I thought, no, but it's clearly Macklemore.

SPEAKER_01

We didn't think it was honestly the idea that you thought the documentarian Michael Moore was in it was really funny. And then for you to be like, no, no, no, I'm talking about the 2013 rapper Macklemore. I assume that's his year because that's only time you've ever nailed it. Yeah. Uh no, that's insane. It's not McLore. It's not McAllmore.

SPEAKER_03

I really thought it was, and we were looking it up after I was pretty ready to be smug because I swear in the back of my mind, I heard McAllmore was in this, which is completely people through the grapevine and said Macklemore does appear in this video. I can only assume he's been cut. Cut for time. He would have had to have been in this. Surely. Surely.

SPEAKER_01

Michael Jackson and Macklemore, I feel like they're intertwined in a way.

SPEAKER_03

Well, they're both M's.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well stop. Stop. It's too much. It's too much. Bill has an interesting role of being with outside knowledge, he is the father figure to Michael Jackson. Yes. In this film, he's in the background of shots looking over. And that's it. And that's it.

SPEAKER_03

If he it feels he would be akin in a religious movie to an angel. Like just an angel that's hanging about is a good omen. And then at the end they're like, Did you realize that was an angel? He he earned his wings and now he's on his way home.

SPEAKER_01

Or like Santa Claus in like a sort of Christmas movie. Yeah. You kind of go, Who's that old homeless guy? You know? He's with that big bushy beard. You know, I don't think I respect him.

SPEAKER_03

And then they go, Oh, but when he walks, bells jingle, and that's okay, I guess. Hey, where did he go? Oh my god, did you see Santa in the sky? It was like one of those moments. Yeah, yeah. Where the hell is Bill? Oh, God's in the sky.

SPEAKER_01

Like Witcher Kinney is kind of his. He at the end kind of has been like, kind of like, that Joseph's no good to Michael. And if I had my way, I would do something about it. And then the film climax is Michael being like, We're not doing any more tours. And Michael walks away from him, and then Joseph is like, Hey, you can't say it to me. And then Bill, our big security guy, goes, Hey man, don't. And then walks away, kind of goes, nailed that interaction. Fucking can't be stopped.

SPEAKER_03

I'm God. That act that poor actor must have been just chain smoking after he saw this movie and was like, and that was the heart. That was the heart of that film. The relationship between Michael and I, that was that was the heart of the beating heart. And I if somebody said that was the plan, you could foresee how they thought they were gonna do that, and then it just hasn't got any follow-through. No. A lot of this movie consists of Michael having one-on-one conversations with either his mum, his dad, Bill, or Miles Teller. And they're all just life-changing conversations each time. You know, nothing particularly interesting, like it just a mum being like, I knew you were special immediately.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you really had no like it was You came out with tap shoes and look at you go. Look at you go. That whole relationship, again, is sort of played as I think the film is preventing stuff, but because the whole everything's so weird about his life, it just leeches through. You're like, it's crazy his only friend was his mum for a hot minute. And the film kind of goes, ha ha, yeah, but he was chilling cool, you know. It's odd that relationship and the not relationship with the father. Like it's crazy they don't go into that, but the accent they have to just spill it because of what's happening.

SPEAKER_03

The mum's so clearly unhappy with how things are unfolding, yet is standing by the dad. And it's like, how is the way that the dad is treating her children not blowing up their relationship in a way that's worth telling us? Yeah. The there's a part in the movie when she turns to Michael and is bluntly like, Why don't you have friends your age? Why are your friends adults or like animals? And he's like, kids just take photos of me and ogle me. And you go, Okay, well that's interesting. Show us then.

SPEAKER_01

That's a sadder sentence. There's a lot of sentences that are said that are almost maybe like that's just Michael's life. Yeah, but it's tragic. It is, it's sad.

SPEAKER_03

And you go, show, show so I can empathize with this kid. Show me what it's like for him to be in a situation where he's trying to bond with another kid his age, and they can't get over the fact that this is a famous kid.

SPEAKER_01

Because in my mind, the big sort of theme of Michael Jackson's life is being completely isolated because of fame, and as a result, has developed these horrible, weird interactions and way of viewing life that got him in trouble and led to a a bad later life that is uh filled with allegations that probably stemmed from that, you know. That seems to be like what's the life, you know. So by not presenting that, you're just like, oh god, I don't even know what God, I'm gonna be first in line with Jackson. I cannot wait to I just I just can't even imagine them presenting anything bad with a pot like it's gonna be dreadful, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Wouldn't it be great if they heard all the critiques and made a a bet the like uh Sorkin does like an incredible courtroom drama, no music, just an incredible courtroom drama.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they've saved all they've saved the last album like didn't use it, it's all in the credits. My god, we scored it. You wouldn't believe Q came back for the score, and he was vengeful.

SPEAKER_03

Q just went into it. He turned down the lights on the film, too. It's barely bright, it's at 50% brightness.

SPEAKER_01

Um so at this point, Michael's like, alright, one album smashed it, let's do another.

SPEAKER_03

And you go, okay, sure, just do another. And he's like, Oh, what's my lead gonna be? It is hilarious. This just we because the you know, we all know it's thriller. Yeah, we know it's what the album's gonna be called. It's just a post-it note with a question mark.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you had predicted at the start someone was gonna be like, Wow, I you know, I just watched this horrible film. I think the genre was a thriller, and then Michael Jackson's like, say that again. But no, in this way, it's even more comical. It's him pretty much with like listening to all the songs. He's got a big like sort of uh uh pushboard with all the songs and then a big question mark of his front and like red string attached, like, it's gotta be one of these songs.

SPEAKER_03

It's gotta be one of these songs, and then one night he's just watching a Vincent Price film and is like, and that's it. Yeah, but it's I don't know how famous it is that people know Vincent Price is in the thriller music video. So I think you're I think to tangibly be like, oh, he's watching the Vincent Price movie, cut to he's midway filming the thriller music video, is a really substantial leap for people to piece together how we got to the thriller music video.

SPEAKER_01

Which this film was advertised as like the thriller video is fantastic. My partner midway through the thriller the thriller scene was coming on, she's like, This apparently because the film has not been good at this point. She's like, This is apparently the really best film. So just wait, wait. Really bland film, really bland film. I will say this the pre the thriller film was but my favourite part of the whole film. Michael Jackson is watching gang violence happen in LA, went, I've gotta do something about this. Bloods and Crips are going absolutely crazy. So he they've used like real footage of like the gang members like fighting and stuff, like news footage from that time. Michael's like, I'm gonna go down there and I'm gonna figure this whole thing out. He drives his limo into I I guess a studio lot uh with Bloods and Crips, I guess their art department or their like dance uh posse already sort of like we're in tableau, and then Michael's like, you know what? Give me a hat. And just sort of uh Give me a red jacket, yeah. Yeah, give me a red jacket, which we think would be Hey, show me that thing again.

SPEAKER_02

What's that thing you're doing with your feet?

SPEAKER_01

Are these gang members or are they just general It it we're told he's gone down to see gang members?

SPEAKER_03

Cut to him at the YMCA. Yeah, that's the feeling of like what it is.

SPEAKER_01

They are presenters' gang members, and these are the most like jacked men who are already ready to like at a 5, 6, 7, 8, you know, it's real good.

SPEAKER_03

They're like the jazziest men of the street ready for a for a photograph, and he's like, I'll sign them all later. Everybody on your toes.

SPEAKER_01

Like and they nail it, like he's like five, six, seven, eight, and then suddenly they're all like it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03

But this is this is choreograph-wise, like the best part, I think, that they show his talent of being like, and I think Jafar's really good in this scene. Like they're moving really good, I think they're all in good synchronicity. I love everything that's happening there for sure. Yeah, but it's it's also I think at that point they've decided to make it completely um the they've gone diegetic with the sound, which is the first time they've done it in the movie, which makes it all a lot of ha ha ha shaman, which is fine, which is fine, but it's just a bit of like a shock to suddenly be like, now we're just gonna sit in like the sound of shorts, feet, yeah, and like heavy breathing. We're running this dancing, and you're like, okay, this is I'm also this is a good scene visually, and yet I still really feel like I'm not fully immersed in what's going on. Like, and I think even by this point, he's done the moonwalk. Yeah. Without any fanfare in the film. They just go, and also one stage he just did the moonwalk and everyone loved it. You go, show him practicing. How'd he come up with it? When did he feel like was the right time to use it? Shoot the moonwalk like it's a moment that will give me chills. But it's just he does the moonwalk. You guys remember that scene. You remember it. Just don't worry about it. It's such a nothing scene. I couldn't tell you when in the movie it happens. Yeah. Other than being like, that was the moonwalk. Yeah. That was the big that was the moonwalk scene, like his most famous deal.

SPEAKER_01

If you went back and watched like the crowd reaction to that, they are fucking going crazy for it. And you just think, guys, we know it's a big moment. Had it happened.

SPEAKER_03

Well, the that's the other thing, is the actual footage that's on YouTube of a lot of the concerts that they're covering are amazing and give you chills. And yet the dramatization with a$200 million budget can't give you the chills in the scene.

SPEAKER_01

The budget's crazy. Because it does again, so much has been cut. It seems like the Jackson Estate has almost like just spent money to patch up all the sort of mess messiness. But they've they've recreated Neverland, which has not appeared in the film. We should also say the world. The world.

SPEAKER_03

They didn't mean to do it, but like you can fly there now. Like it was it's a good one.

SPEAKER_01

They did not know they thought they were doing a pan 2, and unfortunately, they were not doing a pan-too.

SPEAKER_03

You can go there, and children aren't aging, and it's weird, but we've done it for the movie, and we don't know where it's gonna fit.

SPEAKER_01

It's it the lot does not have the space for it, and it's just a bit messy.

SPEAKER_03

No, that's right. It is it's all very Pan 2-esque. They got Levi Miller back.

SPEAKER_01

Hugh Jackman was like, you know what? Anything for Michael.

SPEAKER_02

Anything for oh, Michael wants us back. If Levi's in, so am I. Clear my schedule.

SPEAKER_01

I've divorced my wife, I've got spare time. Fuck it. But there is also like a running theme, which I guess they just didn't cut because they didn't. I don't know. Oh, constantly Michael Jacklin is reading Peter Pan just like one day. One day. They do this like five times, just shots at Peter Pan. And I don't know if it's once they looks over and cries.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Just slow zooming on Neverland and then just sitting on his face crying again.

SPEAKER_01

Which I assumed they would be tying into this like man at one point. He wishes he just didn't grow up. They don't do anything of that. It's just like that's what I'll call it. Never land. When I make my crazy$30 million mansion with a bunch of weird things happening around it, um be, I'll be a bit ironic, you know? Wouldn't that be funny? You know, bunch of kids in there. That's comedy. That's comedy.

SPEAKER_03

I would also love that it's you know, what is the truth behind that? Is it because he liked the book or because he liked the film? You know, like what is it? There is a dizziness in the movie that they can't actually indulge in because of copyright issues. You know, one stage Miles Teller calls the big Mickey Mouse the Mouse. Yeah. Which is you can just tell. But because they can't use any Disney iconography, really. I it's it's hard to really know if he's immersed in this shitty version of Peter Pan. It's probably been drawn for the film by AI. Yeah. Or, you know, he was swept up in a movie as a kid. What's more likely?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It's crazy. Uh, should we get into Miles Teller as well, as the lawyer? Big catch. Who I found out is now a producer on the film, which makes way more sense why he's so prominent in this film. Yeah. He's like, I'm an important part, and I want a movie star to play me. Get me Miles! They're in like a boardroom, and the boardroom's like, you know, we need. I I I don't know what he's up against. Because at this point, I assume he's had two of the biggest albums ever. And it's where the boardroom's like, Michael, you're not gonna make it, okay? And with this little thing we call showbiz, you're freaking done. And then Miles tells, like, I'll back for him. I think this Michael Jackson's gonna be big in '85.

SPEAKER_03

Like, yeah, I mean, everybody it's hard to know what the meeting is. So it's a big music meeting for the next album, right? Yeah. But I think it's a bunch of lawyers being like, we can't get you out of your contract. You have to fire your dad. Yes. And so he cowers and is like, Milesteller, you do it. Milesteller sends a memo, which I think is pretty funny.

SPEAKER_01

It's probably the best part of the film. Yeah. And I think, you know. Coleman Domingo has these, like, again, he's got these like contacts in. I think Joe Jackson did have slightly different eyes, but like Coleman Domingo's got these, like, and probably I I wish the film was more stylized because he almost looks like a bit devilish. He does. A bit scary.

SPEAKER_03

He looks like he's getting more and more insane. Like, and I think that's the only interesting choice, but I just think I think it's Coleman that's decided that.

SPEAKER_01

He's just like, I want to wear contacts, I want to be a lot.

SPEAKER_03

It's like make my hair more frizzy, and I'm just and I'm gonna just get closer to the camera. Yeah, you know, and that's on you to deal with.

SPEAKER_01

He's taking good choices because when he reads that facts, he's got this face like moing moing, and then he's just angry for the film.

SPEAKER_03

But there's no real re rip repercussions for that. Yeah, you wonder if it's like, is he gonna hit his kid again? Because he we haven't actually shown him abuse Michael since he was a kid, so now he's just sort of a mean person. Yeah, but is was he still abusing Michael at this time? Michael's still very scared of him. Yeah. What's what is it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it feels weird. And even the mum at one point's like, you can't hit him anymore. Yeah. And I get like there's like relate, like, you know, but go into that. What is why? What's happening? Yeah, it seems like he's got all the power in the world, and Joe uh Jack, I keep him with Joe Jonas, yeah, is like clinging on for it. At one point, uh he meets, and I don't know what his name is, but it's the guy from The Simpsons who uh is the like the pro the manager for like Muhammad Ali. Yeah, the guy with the spiky hair, like one round, Mo, he couldn't give you one round Mo episode with Homer's the Boxer.

SPEAKER_03

It's the only reason I know him, he's just sort of like a money bags rich man.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like with fun hair and he promoted fights. I don't know what he was, but at one point he's like, I want to I want Michael to be another tour.

SPEAKER_03

What was the point of this?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's almost the fact because I thought it would be another issue of like he's like, let me lie and say that Michael is still in Jackson 5, assuming that that would affect now his no su now solo career. But again, Michael can just sort of do both things. He can do the Pepsi commercial, he can do the Jackson 5, and he can do his solo career with no real issues. Yeah, he does not seem strung out or tired or anything really. He's just doing it.

SPEAKER_03

He never felt overworked, he was always happy to do anything he was ever told at all times.

SPEAKER_01

And he sort of he had a good work life balance.

SPEAKER_03

And he did it all with a smile, you know, and they're like, and this is me. Oh, did he ever fall in love or have a relationship? Or what was his relationship like to anything happening in the real world? Oh, not important. Nope. Not important. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it, don't even ask it. Yeah. It's fine. And that way he'll always remain a guy that's there.

SPEAKER_01

Guy that's there. Nothing, nothing wrong with him.

SPEAKER_03

There's a part that I didn't think that they were gonna do, but they do very Very, very briefly brushed up on what he was doing surgically to his face and to his body. There's a bit earlier in the film, yeah. He goes to get a nose job, which they you know subtly is probably because of the fact that Dad's made one offhand comment about the nose. Yeah. And he Michael Jackson also says, Oh, I see a lot of pictures of myself, and so you'd get pretty judgmental of your own face. Yeah. Which I thought was a very empathetic line. Weird to not show him going through that. Like we don't actually see many pictures of Michael Jackson in the press.

SPEAKER_01

The uh off the wall is him with that pre-like the surgery, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So it's crazy, like, I don't know, just be that album means so widely available, doesn't have an impact there. But it's all just like all the celebrities are doing it. So I got it done. And he's and he's happy. He's like he's like he's super happy about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But I loved the surgeon coming in being like, you're sure? You wanna back out? I'm a nice one. So I'm not looking, uh you know, has anybody ever got into uh like an office about to spend tens of thousands of dollars on surgery? And the surgeon's like, You wanna you wanna not bother? You got a pretty face.

SPEAKER_01

They're up hot as hell constantly just like, wow, we're not doing the nose today, huh? Okay, weird. Surely the ears next week. Come on, buddy. It's disgusting over here.

SPEAKER_03

It feels like the the surgeon's basically being like, What I like to do is I like to hit on them, see if they'll just go with the fact as to whether or not that I think they're beautiful. Yeah. And if they don't like that, well then I'll just cut them open with a scalp.

SPEAKER_01

100%. I look at the inner beauty and then I immediately cut out their outer beauty. Because quite frankly, it's easy.

SPEAKER_02

It's easy to do it and they pay me a lot of money to do it. A lot of money, it's 1980s.

SPEAKER_01

It's gonna I'm good.

SPEAKER_02

Anyway, Michael, you want to back out?

SPEAKER_01

But you're right. There's a lot of things, again, thrown in, I think, because they're just like, we can't avoid it. But then by doing that, you open a can of worms like, man, what was he going through there? Because we s we know what happens to him, you know. Is this the start of something? Not really. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_03

We we ended up watching some scenes from Michael Jackson later in life. Um, and he is so his face is completely different. His skin is obviously white, but he's also really sickeningly slender. Yeah. Um, and I wondered how I wonder how they actually would do Michael Jackson's face on Jafar Jackson for when he's so gaunt and white.

SPEAKER_01

I was looking at some behind the scenes. They've got him in, I guess, deleted scenes or for the sequel, they've got him in white makeup.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

For I guess when he's probably a bit more 1990s, probably. Um even I feel like they said it, but I I think at that last scene, he didn't seem that like like yeah, they didn't do too much of a contrast.

SPEAKER_03

I looked into it because apart apart in the movie, he's like, I would like to be a recluse. Like, I would like people to not know much about me, and I think that will make me more famous. Um, and I loved that as an idea and them touching on it, not that they do anything with it. Yeah, but then going and actually looking on the internet, uh a real reason it was so famous is because he wasn't around very much. He did just rock up one day and he was white to do the press for like the next sort of iteration of his career, and everyone was like, What's going on here? What are you gonna acknowledge this? And he's like, nah. Oprah is like, why are you white?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like I'm not gonna get into it. Not here, Oprah, not here. Which again, and that line is you're right, like so interesting. Because I think it feels like the the nothing knowledge I know about Michael Jackson is that he was also like like me, like creating this brand and mystique is so important, and why I think he's so able to be so high up as like a famous person. Yeah, is because he was like, No, I'm not gonna do what I've yeah, I've assessed how I can be the most famous person in the world, and it's by doing all this. And you're right, it's like but then you also go, he's got that line, but then he has also apparently has no agency about like his life. He's got no agency, and you know, just like I know, he's very clever and has gotten to be the most famous person in the world. He has made decisions, yeah, and it's frustrating for the film to be like, nah, even by when he's 30 making his last out like big album, he still didn't stand for his dad.

SPEAKER_03

No, and I the and that's what's also weird too, is because him standing up to his dad feels like the end of like a first act, you know, like that in a in a regular biopic or in just in a regular film, yeah. It's hard to really place where that would be, but in my mind, it would probably be in the begin the end of the first act or the end of the second act. So the fact the big ending of the movie is him standing up to his dad. I go, this just wasn't a big enough problem to overcome. No, especially considering you had so much success, and he was fired, and it looked like you kind of overcame him, other than having to do this tour at the end.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It seems like it was for the brothers as well.

SPEAKER_03

It's just not, it's just not immersive, and it's like if this is all fact, it's like clue me in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Keep me informed so I understand why you're like he's fired, but then he's also your father, so is he still just like a uh looming presence? Uh we will really quickly go into, I guess, the Pepsi uh scene, and then I feel like he has just like a lot of time at the hospital.

SPEAKER_03

Look, and also during all this time, he's just hanging out with kids.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. He just he just loves a kid. Hanging out, he loves hanging out with kids, and again, it just feels like we all know the allegations, you know. Yeah. Like, but it's odd for them to be going so over, like, no, he loved seeing kids in cancer wards, he was so kind, and I know technically he was, yeah, but it's an odd ear, like, vibe for the rest of the world.

SPEAKER_03

And without having done the court case, which would likely have been in the film, which is when I think the court case would be like, but look, he's always had like a weird relationship with kids, and then we'd all go as the viewer, but he was just hanging out with sick kids. Yeah, you know, like, and that's the reason that would be there. But because the allegations don't come in at the end, he's just sort of hanging around with kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And we and and people that agree casual uh watchers will go, huh?

SPEAKER_03

Oh, should I be reading into that now? Because you're not acknowledging it. No, no. So it makes me think you're hinting at it.

SPEAKER_01

He's a kind man. You're a freak for dis deciding that, you know. Don't worry about the last 15 years of his life. That was weird. Don't look it up.

SPEAKER_03

Don't look it up. I think it would have been hilarious for the Jackson estate to just be like, you know, he never actually went white. Yeah. They just erase history.

SPEAKER_01

I think they were genuinely, they were like, How much can we push? Because this film is like, there must be such some like facts that like we can't avoid those. Yeah. He went white and he did get it went to a trial. Yeah. But other than that, I think we're good.

SPEAKER_03

I think they're gonna have to have a big moment when he names a kid blanket. I think that's gonna have to be a real hey, I'm really cold. Putting this blanket on. Hey, say that again.

SPEAKER_01

Well, can he get into the Pepsi one? Because then the film just drags on for another 40 minutes.

SPEAKER_03

Also, the Pepsi thing again, you probably knew the Pepsi thing, right? When he gets lit on fire. Big say obviously big part of his life, and is the beginning of his eventual death. Yeah. Is he accidentally gets lit on fire while filming a Pepsi commercial and it gives him third-degree burns that seem to essentially get him addicted to pain medication, which he ends up ODing on? Yes. Is that my correct understanding? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it just sort of happens, effects-wise, horrible, kind of laughable, honestly.

SPEAKER_01

Him sort of like again, and sort of presenting him as like a child, like, ah, my hair's on fire, and then is in a hospital. The doctor's like, Okay, so you're gonna be uh bald, you will always be in pain, yeah, and quite frankly, you cannot do this last arena. You are too sick and you're too ill, and you're lucky to be alive.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it can't be stressed that you are lucky to just be alive, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then the film has these long shots of in the hospital, sort of going, Man, that was tough.

SPEAKER_02

I love the burn war. Hope you donate all the money here.

SPEAKER_01

I I know that maybe he did donate all the money, but it feels like the film went he donated all the money. Just so you guys know.

SPEAKER_03

Just it felt like at any, you know, not that I think as a movie you need to be constantly ch telling me about how much people are worth or how much anything's worth. But a thing I really like in the social network is they really keep you informed as to how rich people are getting and how the money is moving, and what the actual worth of shares are and Facebook is, and at any point in time you actually understand why there would be a threat and people fighting over this amount of wealth. Yeah, I'm never clued into how rich Michael Jackson is in the movie. I have no idea how much money it is.

SPEAKER_01

Him being like, I'm donating a million dollars. The Pepsi people paid me a million dollars for burn in my face. Yeah, I'm gonna give that to the burn water. That seems good, but I don't know what you're you're the biggest artist in the world. I when when I hear biggest artists in the world, I just assume you kind of have infinite money. Yes, yeah. So I don't know. Is that that is that good? Anyway, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But it's like the whole family's living at this one place. Yeah. And so it's like they're doing it tough. Yeah. And so you're like, well, what do you is this because this is the way you who's who decided the family stays together in this home? Is that the family unit was so strong? Is the dad wanted to keep everybody under his control? Yeah. Is it a thing because Michael loved his family and he wanted them to be around all the time? I don't know. Tell me.

SPEAKER_01

Tell me. It's that make a decision. So at this point, the big again, you think, oh, this is the big moment. Now Michael Jackson cannot perform. He's just been in a horrible injury. How the hell is it gonna happen? He starts performing.

SPEAKER_03

He starts performing, he goes, he goes right back out on stage and he is happy with it, he's fine with it. He looks great. Yep, he's he's almost got no lasting damage to it.

SPEAKER_01

Which is odd that I feel like they've made such a song and dance of just like he is gonna be disfigured. Yeah. He doesn't look that disfigured.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. There's no underlying sad I don't know if this is the way it's directed, written, or Jafar's performance, but there's no real like underlying sadness like when he is performing or what he is going through. It's just I'm back. Like I think a really good actor would go, I want to show a difference in how I was performing pre-injury versus post-injury. Yeah. And whether that's just little body movements, little facial expressions, a little moment of being in pain.

SPEAKER_01

Like you are so image obsessed, and for the fact that your your your half your head is on fire, like burnt horribly.

SPEAKER_03

Is he like, I want to wear a hat because I feel so self-conscious about my crown being so exposed. Tell me, and how that because the re he when he is lit on fire, it is a clear big moment for Domino affecting the rest of his career, and yet it doesn't feel like it is in the film. So for the lizard who kept raising my hands in frustration at Oscar. Not that he made the movie, but I'm just I'm just upset about the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01

Should we just get into, I guess, the last because it is just a lot of dance sequences. Uh and so before. By the way, I'm not blown away with anything.

SPEAKER_03

I think Bohemian Rhapsody has some really functionality.

SPEAKER_01

That live aid sequence. Yeah. You know, Bohemian Rhapsody should not get much praise. But that last sequence, you kind of go, that's a good place for your end.

SPEAKER_03

Look, in a cinema, with all the with the, you know, that's a I also think the live aid sequence is much better shot than anything in this movie to get the spectacle of the energy of that crowd and why they felt like that was a big moment for Queen. Yeah. But I don't feel like anything in the movie's a big concert moment for my.

SPEAKER_01

We talk about I think we spoke about as we walked out. There's a shot where there's just the filming thriller and Michael Jackson goes, Hey, you need John Landis, you're a famous director, you need to film a big wide and get my feet in. Because nobody ever gets my feet in, and that's where my like magic, that's where my map magic is. The film then does not shoot him full body, which is the most fucking bonkers filmmaking decision of just not talking to the writing or just not being how like how dare you say a thing in the film that this is how you capture me, and then the film does not capture him like that way.

SPEAKER_03

They then in that scene show you like do the shot with everybody showing the feet, and you it and you go, wow, it is more effective for like four seconds, and then you can tell that the editors come in and be like, people will be bored of that shot. Yeah, mid-shot, cuts out the feet, yeah, and you go, stay with the feet. You just said it in the film to the director. You should know as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Anyway, so we get yeah, there's long the Jackson Fives perform at the end, it's high energy. I think just him as a performer, it's not f you're right, it's not film right. The crowd looks odd, the crowd looks like it's from now.

SPEAKER_03

You can tell that he is they've rented a stage and shot everything, obviously. It's the it's the fact that there's no behind shot of him dancing to the crowd. Yeah. I think a real um uh when I think about really good concert crowd sequences, I really like the ones that were in the Bradley Cooper Star is born because he's gone to a festival and they've unplugged everything but shot it that way. And the best thing is it feels like there's a massive crowd because it's all from the POV of the stage out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And what an easy way to be like, hey, here's a POV of our person. You know what it looks like to look at someone on stage.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, I know what yes, you're absolutely right. As a person that goes to the concert, you know what a concert feels like to a watcher. What does it feel like to the performer? That's your point of difference.

SPEAKER_01

And just having like a bit of a head, like what is Michael Jackson seeing? Because again, we look at looking on YouTube, and I was like, fuck me, dad, these are massive crowd shots, huge crowds, and I just think even the film makes it look smaller. I'm like, whoa, guys, you like it literally is the biggest sold out thing ever. Like, how does that feel? And then to be dancing, you know? Yeah, because you think, fuck, he's like a god, but it doesn't feel like that at all. But yeah, you get the Jackson 5 sequence. He goes, Fuck you, dad. I'm not doing this. Is our last performance? And then the film goes, Great.

SPEAKER_03

1988! Another one, another one. I think because the film knew there's no ending, yeah. And it's not a I if they ended the whole movie on the song Human Nature, I feel like you'd be like nothing against human nature. It ain't but we know there's better songs, much better songs by Michael Jackson out there. Uh so they are right to go and end on bad, but it is funny that they just do a a random time jump to it's probably the biggest time jump in the movie, I think, to just go, and now you can watch him see what's going on.

SPEAKER_01

Well, they've gone from they've gone from him making his second album, thriller, to jumping further to his third biggest album. Yeah. You think, oh my god, surely that was a very interesting point of his life. I guess the next one will go back a little bit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, will it? But I mean it's it's tough to know. Look, I don't I don't know if they're gonna be showing Macaulay Calcom or something in the next movie, but considering what's been set up in this film, you'd think they would also be looking at doing scenes of Michael Jackson being like, I know what it's like to be a child star, and it's really lonely. Like, I can empathize with you, kid. Yeah. Like, do you wanna hang out? Do you want to do you want me to mentor you? What do you want here? And uh I I wonder if this next movie is just gonna feel so disjointed because it's I think it thinks it's set up stuff in another movie.

SPEAKER_01

The tone as well has been set up as just like he is not at fault. Matter of fact, matter of fact, and not at fault, and it's just gonna be really fucking dreadful when it's uh a very grey area, and that's interesting, and morally, I don't know if you should put that on film, but it'll be bad, it won't be good. Yeah, you know, it's gonna have horror people, it's gonna be bad discourse, and it's already a bad discourse. People are just not people are somehow like, if you even say this is a film is bad, you're scum. Michael Jackson is my god, like I don't know. He he's a complicated character, he's an interesting guy, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Uh is there anything you felt like we missed that you want to bring up? Maybe like a highlight or a low light or a coy light.

SPEAKER_01

I do think that hospital scene, I don't know how it's edited or the pacing, but there is a scene of him and his mum just sort of crying, and it cuts from a like a close-up button and big wide, and the wide just hangs for just a little bit.

SPEAKER_03

Just a really long wide. It's maybe the longest wide in the film. Longer than the wide they use of the feet and thriller is the wide of the hospital for whatever weird reason.

SPEAKER_01

And I think like the whole cinema was kind of like started laughing. So stifling a laugh. Yeah, because I think they were like Jafar cry now.

SPEAKER_02

I went, Alright, give me a minute. He's like, I'm gonna do I'm gonna do a single tier.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think he's doing a single tier.

SPEAKER_03

Like, we'll edit in. We're gonna edit in a single tier, Rat. I'm just gonna look at the Neverland cover.

SPEAKER_01

That was that was my biggest uh coilite. What do you like?

SPEAKER_03

Oh I I did like the two main dance sequences in the movie, which were the thriller scene and the choreograph scene. If I had to throw out the things that I sort of thought the movie should have done more of. Yeah. Um if I had to just say like a low light, it's it's probably just how just how blankly shot it all is. I don't think I was I don't think I was ready for how empty a movie I was getting into. There's like nobody in the film. No. It's not odd, right? Yeah, just a lot of lot of scenes just sort of have like 12 people in them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's like famously like he is swarmed at points. And there's like points where he's like in a CGI crowded kind of car, but you're like, I don't know. I just feel like any like publicity I see is just like he is never not surrounded by billions of people.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I think it's it's it yeah, you just don't get a real sense of his fame. You know, when I think about my dad, who's like a coastal kid from a small country. That is Carl Cruz. Um, you know, when I think about like how does Michael Jackson's movie make its way across the world to Australia and down the coast on the radio to somebody else, and what does why did they like that music and why was it popular to them? Just show me why kids in their rooms were wanting to learn to moon walk. Like, what why do people get caught up in the Michael Jackson experience? I've no idea. I couldn't tell you, and I still can't.

SPEAKER_01

No, we watched two hours of it.

SPEAKER_03

I literally watched two hours and I couldn't tell you why Michael Jackson's famous. Yeah. Other than just already knowing he's famous.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Carl, who would watch Michael? Um, this is I love the title, so that's my favourite thing. We do Michael Michael Michael.

SPEAKER_03

It's just Michael, and I get why everybody's like, the next one's probably gonna be called Jackson. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um I think them because Michael II is, dare I say, it'll it'll be a five-star film, because that's an insane title.

SPEAKER_03

Wouldn't it be great if for whatever reason the second one's like incredible incredible? Like they're like Francis Volkoppola decided to come and recompany.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe they've just picked it up, didn't I? Because maybe it will be great. Maybe we will be great. And you know it won't. It won't. I reckon they've also got only the like they've got a pretty nice narrative for this one that was just like him coming up, and now he's at the top, and unrelatable downfall, everyone wants him dead, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And at the end of it, he will die. His middle name's Joseph, so they can't make the second film Joseph to make it a trilogy. Yeah, they do this movie from the POV of Coleman Domingo. People are like, wow, Michael Jackson was a spoiled rock kid.

SPEAKER_01

Joe was right to hate him. Joseph was right, you know. You should have spanked that little boy. How dare you? Um, yeah, who would watch Michael? And who sorry, who isn't watching Michael? Quite frankly, 250 million. Again, first weekend, so it could go up.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, look, and I think that it's it's clear that this is like a uh I'm a biopics exactly. I think this is one of the worst biopics I've ever seen, if I if I have to be honest. Yeah. Um, who's gonna watch it? Michael Jackson fans and people that go to the cinema just a couple of times a year. Yeah. Who's not gonna watch it? I don't know, anybody with a fucking head screwed on, that's probably a mean thing to say.

SPEAKER_01

Let's watch it, but I just I'll stand by that. I'll stand by that. Because you can be a Michael Jackson fan, but I think you should be like, I'm come I'm I it's a grey area.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I just couldn't like I was I've never been I was so on board, and I'm never not like rooting for a movie to fail, and so it was just crazy for me to hate the movie so much and for it to be so useless, and for it to make it's useless.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's it. You're just sort of like I've paid money to watch you've sold me on hey, here's his life.

SPEAKER_03

You got me out of the house and into the cinema for a birthday like a birthday was curated around seeing the movie Michael, yes, and so you couldn't have people in a better circumstance to enjoy your movie, yeah, and it's still just dull.

SPEAKER_01

And you've got the backing of Michael Jackson, and 200 million dollars up on screen. Yeah, just at that point, you know, it is and who would watch this? I think it's it is just like a PR for the Michael Jackson estate.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean his his Spotify has gone up to like 20 million listeners or something over the weekend, so you know I'm not shocked. And look, it's got me listening to Michael Jackson over the last like weekend as well.

SPEAKER_01

I watched This Is It on Tubi. So they made some money somehow.

SPEAKER_03

We all watched This Is It on Tubi. A sad experience.

SPEAKER_01

Honestly, seeing Jafar like in his prime and then seeing Michael Jackson at seconds before death, he go, fuck me, dad. What is the sequel gonna even do? Yeah, I don't even know. He was and he's still moving, but it's stiff. He's moving in like a puppet, you know, and that's not a bad thing. Yeah. Because it's like, wow, a 50-year-old can move like that, but it's uh you could almost see him at the club, just be like, don't get into that man, he will he'll grind weirdly on you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think if there's a just another he he goes up and sort of like points and dances and grinds around a guitar player. And I don't think the guitar player knew it was about to happen.

SPEAKER_01

Nope nope.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but yeah, I think if you want a more comprehensive understanding of Michael Jackson, sit on YouTube for two hours, watch watch some life, watch, watch some good music.

SPEAKER_01

Just that when you're like, wow, this guy's pretty good, watch a documentary and they're like, ah, whoops, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you know, yeah, you can delve into Finding Neverland if you want. Go for it, educate yourself. Oscar, what are we reviewing next week?

SPEAKER_01

Carl, we're back on this verse month.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, we are we hopped off pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we're back on back on in a big way. I mean, the Michael of it all just you can't you can't swept up in my.

SPEAKER_03

Michael Mania, it seems.

SPEAKER_01

We're Michael, I guess we're Jackson versus the peopling right now.

SPEAKER_03

Much like uh seeing the film and not understanding why Michael's famous. Now I've seen the movie Michael, I don't know why this movie's famous.

SPEAKER_01

And isn't that the duality a man willy. That's the man the mirror, some would say, you know.

SPEAKER_03

You see, honestly, it'd be a five-star film if that song was in it. But it's not. But it's not. So what am I saying? They had everything.

SPEAKER_01

They had Michael Jackson backing it. Surely it'd be like a two-star film, but you're like, you guys just really couldn't put it.

SPEAKER_03

You couldn't just put man in the mirror in. That's an easy three stars. So Bohemian Rhapsody, not putting in Bohemian Rhapsody.

SPEAKER_01

Wish that was called Freddy. But Brian May would be like, no, we're a four band people. It's like, shut up! There's one guy I want to see. I don't give a shit about the bassist, okay? Fuck you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, why isn't it called May? You guys catch the new Queen movie called May?

SPEAKER_01

No, I'm a big fan of the sequel Deacons.

SPEAKER_03

What's um what's versing movie should we do? Monsters versus aliens. I could also do that as well. That's a that we can't do that. Can we? Is that interesting? Is there enough in it?

SPEAKER_01

No, no. Seth Rogan's a blob.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, he's Bob as well. He's Bob the Blob. Um we'll have a think. If you've got an idea, you can email us at ask at the givt podcast at gmail.com. Thanks for listening. Bye.